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Dear colleagues in rock mechanics and engineering geology!
We are developing the RMR-based rock support further and would also like to update Bieniawski's summary figure for stand-up time. We already have data on some projects (we have collected historical mines here as well as natural caves, old and new tunnel projects).
We are asking you to send me information if you have it.
Information needed: project location, the time of the execution (any additional references would be good), how long was the tunnel unsupported (collapsed? or was there any indication?), remained unsupported? What RMR or Q value was typical for the reported underground area?
Thank you in advance!
My email address is deak.ferenc@tunnelte.ch
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RMR and Q-system were developed based on case histories. Both systems have some limitations. In RMR system UCS have been given significant weightage which is lacking in Q-System, but no parameter on active are consider in RMR-system. Further, in Q-system SRF value for construction of multiple tunnels parallel to each other is not assign and UCS has directly less role in calculation of its value.
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I study caves formed in quartzite, and in the region all the caves have layers of sandy sediments alternating with organic matter. Topographically, these caves seem very old, even due to their position in the middle to upper slope. The carbon 14 ages are very recent. I would like other analyses to date these sediments; perhaps stimulated optical luminescence.
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Hello Alessandra.
Unfortunately i do not have a ready to go answer to your problem of origin of the sediments. I would suggest you look for a possible area outside where they might have their origin and compare the chemical and mineralogical composition.
Please have a look at the quartz grains in the sediment and from the quartzite in the microscope. Different shapes and different grainsize may be an indication of different origin. Thats a nice problem for a geologist like me.
best regards
Volker
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As the known, there were the most richness species diversity of the cave animals, especially for the cave fishes, because the underground river sytems. But there were the diffculties exist also, in the same area, there were the surface and the under surface river, and also had the same genus in the same area. We need find a best model or way to identify where had the cave fished lived in the largest scale. So, I hope who is interesting in this that could discuss this problem, and we could cooperate.
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We already did the megagenome and MtDNA genome sequence work to discuss how the cave fishes adaptive in the energy scared environment of the dark underground river, meanwhile, we also found some adaptive traits of morphology in these fishes. You are right that these are very interesting things in the evolutionary history.
But we hope we could indentify where or the accurate location these fishes distributed in by the geological method.
Anyway, thanks for your suggestions.
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Hello I'm looking for journals in the field of microbial ecology or karst caves that publish short article types or a short communication. I have a brief article about microbiology of an anchialine karst cave. Thank you in advance and all suggestions would be welcome :)
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My suggestion for you dear colleague Vergara- contact via Reserch Gate with Roman Ozimec PhD (Slovenia) and Lada Lukić Bilela (Sarajevo University -Bosnia and Herzegovina).
Nest wishes
Alen Lepirica
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Last weekend I took a photo of this cave-dwelling snail in a northern peruvian cave (1200 metres above sea level). Could you please help me to identify the Genus and Family? Thank you very much.
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The only species of terrestrial snails that resemble your species belong to the Family Polygyridae Pilsbry, 1895, which became a Subfamily by (Bouchet & Rocroi, 2005), also resembles a species of Planorbidae but these are Freshwater snails. The Polygyridae family does not appear to be distributed in Peru, it is certainly a new species belonging to a new genus. The ecosystem from which it comes (in a cave at 1200 m) is undoubtedly interesting, the specimen is albino. I advise you to go and get other specimens and keep me in mind if you want to describe the species. A malacologist, Roberto Ardovini.
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Elaborate on each of the following philosophical themes. Equally, on each theme, provide the limits and the strength.
·Plato’s Metaphysics: Reality as ideas
·The allegory of the cave
·Plato’s Idea of State
·The midwifery method: pedagogic method used by Plato and Socrates
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Very complex questions: thank you very much for proposing them!
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True or false: Discrepancy exists between Theory of Cave and The Republic (both by Plato). Why or why not?
My answer:
If Plato claimed that elite people were obstructing the visions of the masses with the metaphorical cave then why was he advocating for a Republic ruled by philosophers fought for by soldiers, and financed by merchants? Hence the suspected discrepancy between Plato's Cave and his Republic. MAYBE Plato changed his mind at some point thus causing the discrepancy.
Sources:
Britannica, The Editors of Encyclopaedia. "The Republic". Encyclopedia Britannica, 21 Aug. 2023, https://www.britannica.com/topic/The-Republic. Accessed 26 September 2023.
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Because the Republic is an indirect proof against a move made away from Socrates iirc in book 2.
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The question is associated with the following item:
Troglomorphic adaptations on the northern European frontier – the phylogeny of the cave Pseudosinella (Hexapoda, Collembola) in the Western Carpathians
I would greatly appreciate you advice how can I complete list of authors for this entry and also make some other specifications.
Thank you,
Lubo Kovac
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See the help page https://help.researchgate.net/hc/en-us/articles/14292798510993 for instructions how to change the list of authors.
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I have determined radon in Philippine caves for my MS thesis. To add an environmental health aspect, I have proposed calculating the excess lifetime cancer risk (ELCR) for tourists and workers. I have found that there is no significant risk to tourists. However, it is not the same for the workers since they spend more time inside the caves due to repeated entry. I found an estimated ELCR of 2% - 3% for the workers. Does anyone has an idea where can I compare this estimation and what is would be your opinion on this. For now, I can just say that there is a significant risk to cave workers due to radon exposure.
I tried looking for related literatures but most ELCRs are estimated for indoor environments such as work offices and homes.
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There is no study on radon and lung cancer that has demonstrated a relationship at a simple level of statistical significance. A conclusion that there is a relationship requires a rigorously supported proof that goes beyond dragging a p-value from struggling data.
Nevertheless, if you must produce an ECLR for your thesis, assume a regulatory model of risk as your basis. Use the basic premise of time of exposure and what is considered as equivalent lifetime to proportion risk. It is that simple.
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This year (2023), together with Gökhan Aydın, we described a new Amphipod species (Gammarus morcae) 1260 m below the surface of Morca Cave in Turkey. It is undoubtedly one of the deepest records in caves or groundwater habitats. Meanwhile, we wonder which crustacean species have been reported from the deepest (excluding marine records). Any ideas? Greetings from Türkiye :)
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Until a few years ago Krubera Cave was known as the deepest cave in the world (but now this record belongs to Veryovkina Cave in the same area, Georgia, Abkhazia). I leave a few articles from Krubera, including the deepest living stygobionts. Kruberia abchasica, gen. et sp. nov. of Amphipoda seems to hold this record at 2175 m.
With the description of this species, whose deepest record was previously given as 2140 m, Zenkevitchia sp. became synonymized. Thus, the depth has changed, and it has been described as a new genus.
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I need to discover the actors of ecosystem where Neanderthal lived, in order to better understand his role in that ecosystem. Datation near -40ka are preferred. I can use reviews that list the bone faunal remains, for example into caves or similar.
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Don't just consider large game, there were other important component in Neandertal diets. Of course, good evidence for plant foods are both harder to identify and often ignored.
2011 Henry, A. G., A. S. Brooks, and D. R. Piperno. Microfossils in calculus demonstrate consumption of plants and cooked foods in Neanderthal diets (Shanidar IIIm Iraq: Spy I and III, Belgium). Proceedings of the National Academy. of Sciences 108 (2): 486-491.
But in addition to the emphasis in research on larger body-sized animals, small game and invertebrates also should be considered, both for dietary and environmental reconstruction.
2014 Buck, L. T. and C. B. Stringer. Having the stomach for it:a contribution to Neanderthal diets? Quaternary Science Reviews 96: 161-167.
2000 Richards, M. P., P. B. Pettit, E. Trinkaus, F. H. Smith, M Paunovic, and I. Karavanic. Neanderthal diets at Vindija and Neanderthal predation: the evidence from stable isotopes. Proceedings of the National Academy. of Sciences 97 (13): 7663-7666.
2005 Bocherens, H., D. Drucker, D. Billion, M. Patou-Mathis, and B. Vendermeersch. Isotopic evidence for diet and subsistence pattern of the Saint-Cesaire I Neanderthal: review and use of multi-source mixing model. Journal of Human Evolution 49 (1): 71-87.
2006 Balter, V. and L. Simon. diet and behavior of the Saint-Cesaire Neanderthal inferred from biochemical data inversion. Journal of Human Evolution 51 (4) 329-338.
2008 Richards, M. P. and R. W, Schmitz. Isotope evidence for the diet of the Neanderthal type specimen. Antiquity 82 (317): 553-559.
2009 Richards, M. P. an E. Trinkaus. Isotopic evidence for the diets of European Neanderthals and early modern humans. Proceedings of the National Academy. of Sciences 106 (38): 16034-16039.
2009 Hublin J.-J., D Weston, P. Gunz, M. Richards, W. Roebrorks, J. Glimmerveen, and L. Anthonis. Out of the North Sea: the Zeeland Ridges Neanderthal. Journal of Human Evolution 57 (6): 775-785.
2011 Dusseldorp. G. L. Studying Pleistocene Neanderthal and eve hyena dietary habits: combining isotopic and archeozoological analyses. Journal of Archaeological Method and Theory 18 (3): 224-255.
2011 Cortez-Sanchez, M., A, Morales-Muniz, M. D. Simon-Vallejo, M. C. Lozano-Francisco, J. L. Vera-Pelaez, C. Finlayson, J. Rodriguez-Vidal, A Delgado-Huertas, F. J. Jimenez-Espejo, F. Martinez-Ruiz, and M. A. Martinez-Aguirre. Earliet known use of marine resources by Neanderthals. PLoS ONE 6 (9): e24026.
Klein, R. G. and D. W. Bird. Shellfishing and human evolution. Journal of World Prehistory 44: 198-205.
2005 Guthrie, R. D. The Nature of Paleolithic Art. Chicago university Press, Chicago. (mention of possible depictions of insects, the larvae of parasitic warble fly who commonly prey on reindeer and are used as food bty modern etnographically recoded groups).
1999 Hewitt, G.M. Post-glacial re-colonization of Eupean biota. Biological Journal of the Linnean Society 28 (4): 247-284
1994 Vaisanen, R. and K, Heliovaara. Hot spots of insect diversity on Northern Europe. Annales Zoologici Fennici 31 (1) 71-81.
2014 de Pablo, J. F.-L., E Badal, C. F. Garcia, A Martinez-Orti, and A. S. Serra. Land snails as a diet diversification proxy during the early upper Paleolithic in Europe. PLoS ONE 9 (8): e104898.
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If one is monitoring an underground rockmass structure (underground powerhouse currently producing electricity) using microseismic monitoring process and there is no occurrence of earthquake, blasting, micro-earthquakes, transportation of material etc. in that region.
We are getting about 150 microseismic event in six month and the deformation is low.
Can we say that we are doing dynamic stability analysis of that underground structure using Microseismic monitoring? If yes why?
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Micro-seismic investigation definitely pave the way for assesment of dynamic stability of caverns. However, the signals should be recorded and interpreted on daily basis and with due care & precision.
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Recently I took a photo of this cave-dwelling harvestman some 300 meters from the entrance in a northern peruvian cave (1500 metres above sea level). Could you please help me to identify the Genus and Family? Thank you very much.
Greatings from Peru and a happy new year!
Stefan
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Hi Stefan. It is a very troglomorphic and posible troglobite opiliones (endemic from these cave). Including can be a new species. Did you sample?. Please write me (marconisilva@ufla.br) then we can talk a Little more about this amazing animal.
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Has anyone used the BEIR VI model equation to calculate excess relative risk (ERR) using radon concentration from touristic caves?
What parameters have you changed from the model's recommendations since it is generally used in estimating cancer risk in homes and not in touristic caves? For example, the model assumed that the average time spent inside homes is 7000 hours a year; I think this is much lower than the time spent in tourist caves.
I would love to discuss this further, which will help me include the health risk assessment in my thesis proposal. Attached is the snapshot of the paper from Hunter et al., 2015 which I would like to acknowledge.
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The model is easily converted. It assumes linearity. It is a simple matter of converting life-time home exposure hours to the equivalent life-time cave exposure.
Do a literature search for risk from radon spas.
Note: The BEIR VI risk assessment is very conservative and does not reflect reality. It is what you have to work with.
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I would like to ask about the depth of analysis for producing a paper on identification of species using DNA barcoding technique. For example, I have sampled 3 species of spiders in cave and extracted their gDNA, design COI primers, run PCR and managed to obtain their respective barcodes for species identification. The similarity precentage of all the sequences was between 99-100%. If the species could be determined after BLASTn search, do I still need to proceed for phylogenetic analysis or other relevant analysis? Is the data enough to produce a paper because many papers that I have referred include a number of in depth analysis. Please enlighten on this. Thank you.
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The fewer data you can use, the better; then your paper will be more elegant and enlightened :)
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After electrolysis (iron (+) and graphite (-) electrodes were used; electrolysis duration 5 hours) of suspensions of different soils, I obtained the following Ph values:
HC (humus soil): 10.99
DVT (garden soil): 8,15
TLV (garden soil): 5,68
JPG (forest soil - 100 meters from the karst cave): 6,13
JPZ (forest soil - 200 meters from karst cave): 10,55
SP (soil close to river - 5 meters): 10,65
SPJ (soil close to lake - distance 2 meters): 10,44
Are high Ph after electrolysis related to the presence of potassium, sodium and carbonate ions? With universal ph paper, these Ph values are around 7 to 8. Before electrolysis, ph was also measured directly with an electrode, in suspension and the filtrate, but never so high. These were mostly normal Ph's, especially with the direct measurement method.
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If the electrolysis with iron gaphene is emplyed overall negative chared materials will migrate to the iron electrode and to the graphene electrode the graphene with pull out the anionically charged compents.
This according to your analysis is making the soils which are not naturally acid more alkaline in thei nature.
Organic material and clay are having averall negative surface charge drives thei into solution iwth water. The precence of cationic briding materials with aggregate and precipate them taking them out of solution.
Mobililizing the materials through current can unbridge the materials and in the adlaize soils the effect would be increase the alkalinity.
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Which rock (rock mass) classifications in geomechanics are best suited for assessing the stability of a natural underground cavity roof using caves as an example? What factors should be primarily considered when assessing the stability of a roof?
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Barton Q system?
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I want to study the emergence and return of the bats in a cave in relation to the duration of the night and day based on data associated with the moment of the sunset and the sunrise during a day in a place located in northern Madagascar. So, I would like to know the website to visit to obtain free and accurate data for my study.
Many thanks,
Riana
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I realize this is an older thread but I'm running into the same challenge and noticing that many of these apparently authoritative sites return different results. Of the four sites I've checked so far (for sunrise in Grunau Namibia October 1st for example) I have a range from 6:24 am to 6:39 am. That's a big difference! Any other thoughts on authoritative sites would be appreciated.
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I have a question which is crucial for my research, do we have any estimated proportion of how much sapiens lived in caves, rockshelters or open-air sites, if you know any available data about that I would appreciate it.
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Hi dear Julius
Thank you for your answer,
For answering the questions of this study, I need a wide range of palaeolithic periods and all regions of humans migrated. I know it's hard to find such data but if know that there is a study that refers to it more generally (for example 3/5 of sites are rockshelters and 1/5 caves and 1/ open-air sites) please let me know about it.
Bests,
Samran
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I am reading about Neanderthals, and also happened to go over the migration of Native Americans to the American continent. The ice age that lowered the sea level by 400 feet and allowed that migration. Was there any similar land bridge events before that?
If so, and the Neanderthals were active well before "modern humans", would they have migrated to the America's before? Say 40,000 years ago or 80,000 or 120,000, or 200,000+?
It is hard to search because all anyone on the web wants to talk about is the last ice age. "Our" ice age.
I am not being facetious. This question seemed interesting enough to share. I could just add it to my personal list of thousands of such questions. But ResearchGate is maturing and growing every day. It ought to be a collaborative site.
Could Neanderthals could have crossed during the last 250,000 years?
I found this page at https://www.e-education.psu.edu/earth107/node/1506 where its says "last 20,000 years" but, thankfully, the chart of sea level goes back 140,000 years. At least it was narrower. Would it have frozen over? Could it have ice intermittently (ice islands, ice sheets, frozen areas)?
This is not something I know about that well. But it seems to me there have been many periods where humans (our humans) paddled and made their way across waters. And where ice might make a difference. Or maybe Neanderthals, so well adapted for cold, just loved to paddle long distance through the ice. The Bering Strait varies in depth from 100 to 165 feet (today). https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bering_Strait
So where might such adventurers have wanted to live in their new continent? Probably caves? Probably Alaska? I don't know. I am not ever sure how to go about it. So I am asking this large and thoughtful group, if anyone has some ideas?
I just ordered all the Jean Auel books again. I have not read them in a long time. Her Neanderthals were a bit hidebound and brutish. (Pardon me, Jean). But Bruniquel Cave is about 176,500 years ago. And they had fire, organization, tents, strength and purpose. If they were smart enough to build a shelter inside a cave, it seems they knew how to stay warm and comfortable.
Early Neanderthal constructions deep in Bruniquel Cave in southwestern France
I don't know. I think it could be important. I think it could be fun.
Richard Collins, The Internet Foundation
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I searched "Neanderthals in North America" and came up with this page, but it requires registration or pay.
Five Breakthrough Signs of Early Peoples in the Americas at https://www.sapiens.org/column/field-trips/earliest-people-north-america/
This is so confusing. But 130,000 years ago in California sounds about right. That is 46,500 years after Bruniquel. I once walked 2700 miles when I got my first Fitbit. Over a long time, but steady, 10-20 miles a day. If people could go, so would other species (reindeer, elk, moose, bear, sloths, mammoths, birds, etc etc etc. Plants?).
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Ice Age Footprints | Full Episode | NOVA | PBS (23,000 Humans) at https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LS7ChlsZsGI
Evidence of humans in North America during the Last Glacial Maximum at
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Ancient human genome sequence of an extinct Palaeo-Eskimo at https://www.nature.com/articles/nature08835 5500 years ago to "New World"
Neanderthal Life No Tougher than That of "Modern" Inuits at https://www.newswise.com/articles/neanderthal-life-no-tougher-than-that-of-modern-inuits
Inuit people have the same 'caveman genes' that helped an extinct type of human survive the last Ice Age at https://www.dailymail.co.uk/sciencetech/article-4052228
("Inuit" OR "eskimo") ("neanderthal") has 2.07 Million entry points (3 Jun 2022 Google)
Denisovan DNA at https://www.archaeology.org/issues/60-1301/trenches/311-hominin-neanderthals-humans-siberia "Native Americans and people from East Asia have more Neanderthal DNA, on average, than Europeans"
There is a lot going on. But it is scattered over many sites, publishers, groups, individuals, styles and methods.
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David McNaughton,
Nicely reasoned. Thank you.
I came down with covid or a bad flu, so I did not update this discussion. I cannot find where ResearchGate keeps "my discussions" so I created a project and filled in there. You might want to follow that project, or take a lead yourself. It might be a week or two before I recover.
I do think it more likely that Denisovians are the particular tribes involved. But I haven't found anyone using "ancient human species" consistently. I was thinking of ALL people and tribes in the world for the last 200,000 years. With nomadic tribes or tribes following herds, they can cover vast distances.
My picture is that from 176,500 years ago in France to 40,000 years ago when we lose track of Neanderthals, that is 5460 generations of 25 years each. And 6825 generations of 20 years each. Plenty of time for cultures, large communities, and LOTS of time for walking or rowing.
It only takes three or four generations of interbreeding to change a people so they almost indistinguishable. Life does NOT always have to devolve to violence and genocide.
I cannot keep writing. I forgot how painful the flu can get. Not awful, just a distraction. No sudden moves.
Here is the link to that project. I hate the sloppy layout of ResearchGate.
Richard
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We consider to build a cave at the NTNU campus for visualization of architectural and urban projects. The size of a cave could be preferably 4,0 x 4,0 x 2,5 m; 180 deg (5 surfaces) could meet our needs.
Thank you for any advice.
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Dear Mrs. Matusiak
Virtual and augmented reality research in the architecture field reveals a wide range of potential applications for systems to assist designers, laypeople, and decision-makers in the architectural design process. There is an urgent need to reconsider how we use the set of collaborative technologies to move toward a more sustainable world. e a new vision of virtual reality (VR) as a discipline-agnostic platform for interdisciplinary integration of allied design, social, and environmental disciplines to address emerging challenges across the building sectors. This contribution is built in the following steps. First, we situate VR technologies within the evolving digital landscape and the underlying tensions in built-environment practices. Second, we characterize the challenges that have arisen as a result of using them to address challenges, illuminating our point with leading examples. Third, we conceptualize VR configurations and investigate underlying assumptions for their application across disciplinary scenarios. Fourth, we propose a vision of VR as a platform that can be used across disciplines.
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CloudCompare works just with point clouds but I would like to add to model some 3D polygons, set symbology based on their attributes for example, make 3D maps... What would you recommend?
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Dear Laura Dušeková:
General GIS software really only processes 2D or 2.5D data, so maybe they are not suitable (maybe QGIS is a good choice, but I recommend you to combine some 3D processing libraries, such as LASlib or libLAS). Cloucompare can be simple Edit and format the point cloud data. After that, there are actually some free and open-source software or projects that may help you realize your ideas, such as MeshLab, Blender, or Unity-3D, etc. I hope you can find some useful codes on GitHub.
Kind Regards,
Zhouxuan Xiao
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There is a small area in south Germany which has cave systems that contain Pleistocene mammal fossils of international importance, as described in excellent paper by Wolfgang Ufrecht, 2008, in Z. Geomorph. N.F. Inspecting the general area, a Google Earth image made 3/6/2021 at 48º25'02"N, 9º13'16"E, (attached) shows hills of solid thick limestone containing a regular array of clints and grykes, which, by comparison with Apple Maps satellite photos of the area, appear to be entirely bogus. There are other features in the general area which appear to be steep dipping beds but on Apple Maps these are simply groves of trees. Are there other examples of seemingly deliberate false geology on Google Earth and what can be done about it?
Malcolm McClure
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I hate to interrupt a new and significant geologic discovery, but what your seeing is a combination of 'layover' from the site being away from the satellite's earth track ( you can see the entire trunks of the trees from the crown to ground ), the season being winter with 'leaves off' and low sun angle and high latitude ( note the almost perfect north trending of the 'geological' features ) and especially, the traditional meticulous German forestry practices ( trees felled in same direction, thinned in almost a perfect distribution ), uniform height of the remaining trees in the stand. If you follow the shadows south, you'll see the layover reduce until your looking straight down on the tree.
What can be done about it? Better public education about remote sensing, but really, this one was a perfect convergence of orbital dynamics, optics, and human cultural practices - I just spend a lot of time looking down from space.
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The soil from its natural composition shows irregularities, many times these irregularities are observed from one foundation to another.
It can also hide invisible dangers, such as caves under the base, underground rivers that can carry the ground and weaken its ability to absorb construction loads.
Although it is necessary to control by drilling a sample of the foundation soil with special drills before even the design of the building, however only in very large and important projects the soil control is performed.
Civil engineers to find solid ground remove loose ground until they find the most stable. (The lower layers of the soil are more stable because they have been compacted by the weight of the upper layers of the soil)
Excavations are a serious cost for construction. Large wall bases are another serious cost to build.
Question.
Why not remove large, wide bases that are expensive and require a formwork, replacing them with deep bases?
1) In-depth bases do not need large excavations.
2) In-depth bases do not need formwork
3) Deep foundations do not need much concrete.
4) The foundations with depth, show you the quality of the foundation because the required drilling that is needed for the foundation in depth is at the same time a sample check of the soil. 5) If you use the mechanism of the invention that I propose, you also achieve improvement of the soil before the construction, from the foundation surface, without excavations, because the anchoring mechanism through the help of a hydraulic tractor condenses it both horizontally and vertically, creating a strong foundation.
6) With the mechanism I propose creators and anchoring of construction and ground, which does not exist in the current design, which diverts seismic loads into the foundation ground, preventing them from being directed on the cross sections around the nodes.
The lateral seismic loads, cause overturning torques of the vertical elements which are transported to the cross sections around the nodes which react with reverse torques.
The result in a strong earthquake is that all sections are strained until they break. The pre-tensioning of the walls + anchoring to the ground prevents the overturning moment and the stresses in the cross-sections, because they divert the seismic loads in the ground.
There is also the shear force. The prestressing on the wall has beneficial effects on the shear forces.
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Following
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The Mystery of the Tabernacle
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I wish you success in your new article.
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I want to study the diversity of microorganisms in a specific area of a cave, so i have the OTUs table and the alpha diversity. Now I want to apply my data for beta diversity in order to compare my sampling areas.
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The range of forms and sizes of cavities in rock is very big. Is there a classification scheme for rock cavities regarding their size and shape?
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Thank you Stanley, for sharing
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Engineering geologists may know that the originators of the empirical (a posteriori) Q-system method of rock mass classification for single-shell tunnel and cavern support estimation, were Barton in 1974, and mostly Grimstad in 1993 and again in 2002, due especially to all the tunnel case records collected by Grimstad and his new support diagram for fibre-reinforced shotcrete. Of course, co-authors Lien and Lunde, and especially Løset made helpful contributions at NGI in the early days. Much more recently, younger authors at NGI presented the Q-system with some new opinions in their ‘Q-handbook’ in the period 2013-2015. This was initially funded by the Norwegian Road Authority, SVV. NGI have thereby (in the competitive world of Google) displaced the originators of Q from the immediate search area. Perhaps originators in general should accept this? However, as a result of major project reviews and some court cases in recent years we have to warn of some errors in the NGI ‘Q-handbook’, which contains some unilateral modifications and occasional mistakes, including a strange and dangerous Jw opinion and an adverse cavern height definition error for estimating the reinforcement needs of high walls. An SRF table is also slightly modified. Furthermore, the support chart has been simplified based on a demand from the Norwegian Road Authority. The source of unexpected opinions about applying the Q-system which have recently been read during major project reviews by Barton proved to be the NGI ‘Q-handbook’. Surprisingly, even the reported ‘years’ of development of Q in the first sentences of the ‘Q-handbook’ and therefore in their Google-space are erroneous, signifying lack of interest or of necessary research. So those who have downloaded from the NGI ‘Q-site’ should be aware of such errors. The significantly older originators of the Q-system were not involved, and references to earlier Q-publications are mostly missing, even incorrect. As an alternative, RG pages can be consulted for early multi- and single-author Q-system publications. (1977, 1980, ASTM-1988, 1994, 2002, NFF-23: 2014, 2015, 2017-NMT/NATM). Nick Barton and Eystein Grimstad, 2014 give an in-depth treatment of Q and NMT and provide numerous illustrated examples of Q-logging. The Q-system originated at NGI long ago, but the active developers of this internationally-applied method left NGI one and two decades ago. Research Gate: Nick Ryland Barton, and www.nickbarton.com has all the earlier and more recent Q-literature for free download, so those wishing for in-depth material on Q, single-shell tunnel support recommendations and rock joint behaviour can avoid, if they wish, the Google ‘big-company’ bypass. An interesting thought at the end: do new authors who were in school when a method was developed get to 'own' the method because they have joined the organization where the method was developed 20 or 30 years before, with the originators now practicing elsewhere?
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Thank you Candan. Timely. Incidentally - just now making a lecture for ISRM on-line. Starting with 'The many faces of Q'. While demonstrating Q-histogram core logging (maybe takes an hour for 10 core boxes of 50m) I could not resist the comment that 'this is engineering geology', not arm-chair choosing of GSI (with the later D option). That is - I believe - an important message for young engineering geologists too.
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This is a isothermal process , So I need to If the compression ratio of a reciprocal compressor is 4.5, how many compressors are
needed in series to compress air in the cavern?
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Hi,
For a near Isothermal process: (PR)^n= Pexeit/Pinlet
(4.5)^n=75/1=75, n~3
Three Compressor is optimum for you.
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Hi!
I have been working with cave invertebrates from semi-arid regions, and have observed some interesting responses from the community to variables at the local and regional level. I know which variables explain their patterns of similarity and richness at different spatial scales. However, I would like some way to be able to illustrate the occupations of the different groups according to the environmental gradients, especially to verify that the same groups maintain the same occupations. Is there a way to test and illustrate this for the whole community? I checked some works that do this according to the overlapping of the functional traits of the groups. However, I would like to do this according to the occurrence of the groups according to the environmental gradients. I appreciate any possible help.
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You might find ordination methods helpful for this. I used different methods for my studies on birds and spiders during the years. Check figure 3 in our latest work (Domer et al. 2019) on bird communities in riparian corridors. In this case we used nMDS, although Primer 6 can offer many other ordination types (you can decide whether you want to ordinate plots by species or species by plots). For species composition, similarities are compared among samples (all pairwise combinations) using either Jaccard or Bray-curtis index. It will then plot all your samples on 2 (or 3) axes state-space. If you had 3-4 different "treatments" you can then mark them differently and see how the species cluster. Any environmental gradient that you have measured can also be entered to the model, and show as an arrow (vector) that starts at the axes origin. Its direction and length will be associated with the species cluster in the same direction, etc.
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Natural Gas can be stored underground in 4 types of reservoirs:
1- Depleted Gas
2- Depleted oil
3- Aquifer
4- Salt Cave.
What are the criteria that help decide the suitablity of one reservoir for storing natural gas?
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non permeability of the sealed rock is very essential. Reservoir formation density, porosity and temperature are also considered.
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I am interested in the local karst systems (Krubera cave ecc).
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Hallo, I would like to know better lithological-stratigraphic characteristics and local karst. The area is name BZYB. I have found some informations yet, like the map in attach, it is interesting
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Please contact me by email so we can exchange our separate "adventures in retirement" topics. Thanks. Greg Ahearn (gahearn2012@gmail.com).
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I also did a bit more googling, and here is a great website with the 10 best caves to visit in Oregon. Lots of great options! https://www.oregonlive.com/travel/2017/05/10_caves_in_oregon_where_you_c.html
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Due to the fact that the land property market is limited, people implement investment projects not only directly on their surface, but also:
  • below them (e.g. tunnels, but also a hotel 100 meters underground) and
  • above them (for example, hanging bridges, as well as offices in "houses" on trees),
  • as well as "in the ground" (including a cave apartment, a hotel in volcanic rocks, an underwater hotel).
Anyway, these are often large and very recognizable investments. Their wide scope induces to ask many questions, e.g.:
  • what investment projects have already been implemented or are planned in individual cities in the world?
  • In what direction can they develop?
  • What ideas that seem impossible today may become possible in the future?
  • How is technology developing, e.g. in the field of construction?
  • Are such projects likely to be affordable for a wider group of consumers?
  • How do these types of investments affect the market value of companies implementing such projects or having them in their investment portfolios?
  • do such investments include the same specifications as classic real estate investments (connected with liquidity, discount rate, rate of return etc.)?
  • Others questions?
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Jaheer Mukthar Kp I am afraid that as it happens in life, in this case we are dealing with positive and negative consequences, e.g. in a natural context. Therefore, it is important to supervise this type of investment so that their location would cover rather areas where the positive effects will be maximized and the negative minimal (in each case it is to some extent an interference in nature). I wonder if they are already emerging somewhere in the world or will they arise in such unusual locations, e.g. special zones for business?
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Hello, I am a caver and a biologist (just by passion, not professional). In summer 2018 I went caving to Magagascar in Namoroka Tsingy. I didn't ask for a collecting permit so I only took photos from the fauna.
I have some from amphibians inside the caves.
See joined file. Can you help me to determine those specimens ? Even only the family would be a great help.
Futhermore, I will go back to that area next july.
Is it usefull I take more pictures ? Is it usefull I collect some amphibians ? If yes, how can I have a collecting permit ?
Great thanks,
Josiane Lips
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I would start with the iNaturalist community resources. https://www.inaturalist.org/
They have excellent algorithms for species of all kinds but are particularly good with animals.
It is possible to build projects and store image files for identification from the community of ecologists.
They currently have over 2,000 observations of 200+ species of frogs:
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Hello everyone.
A high rate of modifications in wing venation in a small population of a species X (Diptera: Tipoloidea) could be the result of low genetic elasticity? Would this fact support our hypothesis that it is a relict and isolated population?
I have added some Background and Facts, which could be useful.
Background: In a study in hypogeal environments we have found a species of cranefly that is apparently isolated (trapped) in the cave (outside the cave conditions are not suitable for survival). We think that it is an eutroglophile species, of which only this population of the cave has survived, losing the population of the external environment in the past.
Fact: We found anomalies in the wing venation of almost half of the specimens. Although the wing venation in the cranflies may be surprisingly prone to individual anomalies (including the addition of crossveins), I do not think it is sufficient to explain such a high rate of anomalies as those found.
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Is there any evidence that the flies use their wings at all? If not, the anomalies could be reflective of a lack of selection pressure for wing structural integrity.
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What is the time table for the Sun's expansion and contraction? New discussion It is my understanding that Earth's Sun is a middle-age star moving into old age. Currently, Earth's Sun appears to be growing hotter, and consequently, its gravitational pull is getting stronger. Plans to use Earth's Moon as a launching site for travel to Mars seem predicated on belief of scientists that we need to make way for the Sun's expansion. But do we have factual knowledge, a tentative time table for the expansion and an estimate of how big the Sun will become (ditto for the contraction of the Sun). Perhaps subterranean towns can be constructed, like a gigantic "Noah's Ark" during the expansion and contraction. After all, humans lived in caves for 10,000 years during the Ice Age. Gigantism Moon caves Sun
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Dear Nancy, I've given you this link a couple of times but I understand you may lose your other account so I'll repeat it here:
The original preprint is on arxiv at arxiv:0801.4031
That gives a detailed and quite accurate timetable including changes to radius, temperature and luminosity.
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It is my understanding that Earth's Sun is a middle-age star moving into old age. Currently, Earth's Sun appears to be growing hotter, and consequently, its gravitational pull is getting stronger. Plans to use Earth's Moon as a launching site for travel to Mars seem predicated on belief of scientists that we need to make way for the Sun's expansion. But do we have factual knowledge, a tentative time table for the expansion and an estimate of how big the Sun will become (ditto for the contraction of the Sun). Perhaps subterranean towns can be constructed, like a gigantic "Noah's Ark" during the expansion and contraction. After all, humans lived in caves for 10,000 years during the Ice Age.
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All stars die, and eventually — in about 5 billion years — our sun will, too. Once its supply of hydrogen is exhausted, the final, dramatic stages of its life will unfold, as our host star expands to become a red giant and then tears its body to pieces to condense into a white dwarf.
Reference :
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i am working on the production of antibacterial compound from cave bacterial isolate against Staph aureus. now i states that microorganism produced these antibacterial compound at stationary phase. so, why it could happened that these compounds produced at growth phase?
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I agree with, Sarath Reghunathan
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I need a methodology for the treatment of fossils of vertebrates recovered in submerged caves, exclusively drying to finally consolidate them
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Dmitry Ivanov
Большое спасибо за ваш ответ. Окаменелости, извлеченные из пещер, погруженных в Доминиканской Республике, если они не были минерализованы до того, как пещеры были затоплены, не проходят процесс минерализации из-за сладкой и инертной среды и минерализации трудно, я хотел бы знать если возможно получить некоторое исследование, которое использовало некоторую процедуру.
Спасибо за ваше сотрудничество
Juan
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Many "open Air" sites appear to have suffered from Frost Creep from occupation zones that were on chalk escarpments. For MSA (cerca 50 ka) sites not subjected to glaciation, there can be vestiges of the original sites still visible on a Google Earth survey. I tested 2 such sites (France and the UK) and found lithics at these locations.
Se hay alguno interese, puedo colaborar en el pre-análisis de las imágenes. Como brasileño, hablo el portunhol pero lego en español.
Sds Cordiales
Alan Cannell
Curitiba ISIPU
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Olá Santiago
Tengo algunas dificuldades de desarollar las encuestas y que vivo en el Brasil.... Pero me parece que funciona e espero que otros puedam utilizar esta metodología.
My main worry is in the location of wind farms as these are often in locations that fit the checklist or algorithm.
I hope to see profesionals developing this to the point where all wind farms carry out a quick survey to rule out any MSA sites being damaged.
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For my PhD-thesis I need to compare the cave bear subspecies Ursus (spelaues) eremus & Ursus spelaeus ladinicus.
There exist a DNA-database, but the results in this database are tiny fragments of mitochondria (I think ~200 bases), with only one or two changes between different bears in that sequence, which very likely will not comparable to the data I have due to lack of resolution. I had sequencing random sections of the genome, so the chances of having sequenced those one or two specific positions are very very low.
Does there exist papers with data of DNA from Ursus spelaeus ladinicus which I can use for comparation?
Thanks in advance!
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Thank you. I will do that.
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How does the Egyptian tourism industry benefit from these distinctive and unique caves?
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Yehia Elzek thanks dear
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I say it does. If for example some early cave art was done by Neanderthals, a distant cousin, or Denosovic, does that mean we are not special but merely exhibit traits that many other species have exhibited before? Should we revise many of our ideas?
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Findings like these usually cast doubt on the assumption, that there is a certain property, which separates homo sapiens from the rest of nature. Tool use has once been proposed as exclusively human, but has now been found among numerous primates and birds. Frans de Waal gives an interesting account of many other falsified claims of human uniqueness in his book: Are We Smart Enough to Know How Smart Animals Are?
I think essentialist concepts of human nature are generally motivated by the hope, that we can find a small number of causes, which explain, why our way of living looks so different from everything else that has lived on this planet so far.
Yet, we have no good reason to assume that such a property exists. Taxonomical categories, even the the species category, are merely introduced for the sake of convenience, as Darwin and later Hull, Mayr and Ghiselin have argued. Species are lineages and like families, they can be described, but not defined by exclusive properties. We should therefore expect to find continuity, anytime we look closer at the anatomical basis of our behaviour.
I often wonder, how we would react to a living homo erectus population. We would probably treat them as human, since we readily interact with any animal, that gives us negative and positive feedback. Hominids would probably play that game at our level.
Maybe population density alone could account for most of the differences between neanderthal and sapiens society, since it enables us to specialize in ways, hunter gatherers can only dream of. Take away our tools, our domesticated crops and animals and watch us reinvent the hand axe. Last time I was alone with nothing but silex for some hours, I didn´t get beyond Oldowan industry.
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Numerical and experimental approaches on the behavior of salt caverns during storage of hydrogen and other gases
PhD opportunity at the École des Mines de Paris – Centre des Géosciences - Fontainebleau
Subject:
The intermittency problem that usually characterizes renewable energy led to vast storage techniques in the last few decades. Hydrogen/energy storage in solution-mined caverns is one of the suggested solutions. In this context, a precise prediction of the cavern thermodynamic state is needed. Besides, such a thermodynamic response requires to be fully coupled with the thermo-hydro-mechanical behavior of the rock mass surrounding the cavern.
Most of the recent available researches with regard to gas storage in salt caverns depend on numerical tools that assume a uniform cavern thermodynamic state, thus they ignore the spatial variations of the cavern thermodynamic variables as well as the flow nature (laminar/turbulent). These numerical approaches allow for low cost and fast simulations, however, a question arises about their validity during fast circulation.
This proposed PhD thesis is dedicated to investigate the integrity of salt cavern mechanical and thermodynamic behavior during fast and slow cycling while addressing the entire complexity of the Computational Fluid Dynamics (CFD) problem, i.e. full discretization of the cavern, cavern gas velocity and thermodynamic variables spatial variations, nature of flow, and the 3D thermo-hydro-mechanical behavior of salt. Moreover, the problem of H2 storage in salt caverns is particular from other gases. This is attributed to the large mobility of hydrogen induced by its very small molecular length, and its potential reactivity with other chemical species that can be present in the storage environment. We aspire that this PhD thesis would shed a light on the phenomenon of hydrogen seepage into the salt rock during fast and slow cycling.
The centre of geosciences and the centre of thermodynamics and processes (CTP) of Mines ParisTech, associated with academic and industrial partners, are involved in a scientific research that includes the development of a laboratory model that is intended to be used to investigate the thermodynamic aspects of underground caverns during gas storage. This laboratory model will help understand the spatial distribution of the thermodynamic variables of caverns during fast and slow cycling. With properly controlling its boundary conditions, it is supposed to reproduce a similar thermodynamic response to real underground caverns. We wish to use this model to study other important phenomena that take place in caverns during cycling, i.e. the presence of water vapor due to brine evaporation, and hydrogen solubility in brine.
Required skills:
Interested applicants need to have good scientific backgrounds in thermodynamics and mechanics of solids. Numerical expertise in the finite element method is needed as well. Other skills may be learnt during the PhD course. Applicants who appreciate laboratory work are strongly recommended to apply. The outcome of this PhD work will be utilized in finalizing industrial projects, therefore chosen applicant will have direct contact with our industrial partners which will promote a certain future work in prestigious companies.
Interested applicants should send their CVs along with a brief motivation letter to Murad ABUAISHA:
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Following
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I want to carry out experiments on jointed caverns. The scale of the model is about 1m*1m*0.5m and the radius of the cavern is 0.15m. The surrounding rock of the cavern is jointed rock mass, not fault. Sketch map of the jointed cavern model is in the attachment.
I want to know how to make the joints? In addition, is it feasible
to use gypsum material to build the model?
Thank you very much.
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Why don't you try to previously cut the blocks along both the discontinuities and the cavern and then to assemble the jigsaw puzzle?
With respect to the material, the idea would be to use one with similar density of the real model you want to model. Maybe a granitic/marble/basalt/etc rock plate?
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Dear Colleagues,
I need some help in the identification of these fungal ascospores evidenced in a sediment originating from the "Caune Arago" cave (eastern Pyrenees, France) and dated to 400 000 years ago approximately. There are 2 types: Tauta 12 and Tauta 14. Please see attached files.
I really thank you for your help.
Best regards,
Yannick
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Thanks Saba. Are you speaking about the Type Tauta-12 (the 2 first pictures)?
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Please see the following vedio and share your opinion about its content.
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Perception and education. My first thought was H.G. Wells Country of the Blind.
Problem is though, those in the cave never realise they are. They do believe theirs is the genuine knowledge. It presents an impasse not a forward stage.
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Together with my colleague Gerlando Vita I'm working on late Paleolithic sediments from San Teodoro cave (NE Sicily). There we found a mystery, small bone. In places (see the withish side in fig. A or at the top of the small,drilled protuberance as in figs B-D) it seems worn out as it was polished.
We interpreted it as a possible sesamoid bone but we are not at all sure!
So what is it? To which animal it could belong?
Hope that someone will help us!
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Looks like stones in mountain.
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I'm speaking of this kind of magic that made radioactivity principles to be discovered. Untidy Becquerel, after an hard day of research, forgot 2 pieces of granite stone on a photographic plaque: that's how he got the first shot of radioactivity. Something he did not planned gave him the keys to understand radioactivity. Because he took the time to recognize his error, analyzed it and begun to plan a theory. At times, life is more generous even and at my humble level, I was so surprised to have shot an image, almost by chance, (because I thought it would be a nice tattoo) and without knowing what it meant, to get aware it was one of the central motifs of my historical-literary investigation: the logo of the famous Manutius family from Venice, who invented book edition: a dolphin rolled up on an anchor. Personally, it gave me the sensation to have entered by chance in Ali Baba's cavern (see my text Antonio Manutius aka Hassan Pacha Veneziano's library). Do you have personal episodes of magical incidents in your research? (Profitable errors, unpredictable things happening, unusual events that change the direction of the wind, etc.)
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Hi, Fred. What I occasionally tell people is, in clinical research, we're all walking through the same woods, and we all trip over the same logs in the woods. The innovators are the ones who look back and say, "hey, that was a log I tripped over!" Everyone else just gets up and keeps walking. The moment with me that comes to mind immediately was diagnosing suppression in vision after whiplash. I think I'm still the only one who has documented the genesis of (intermittent central) suppression where none had been previously diagnosed. I test everyone the same. I had seen a 50+ y.o. man for a routine eye exam and prescribed glasses. He was back 18 months later after a car accident mainly because his glasses got broken. I did the same testing and during the checks in binocularity I routinely do when I had the polarized acuity letters in front of him, he surprised me by saying "hey, this didn't happen before." Then he described his suppression very precisely. I hadn't even asked about suppression, and had no frame of reference to expect a suppression to develop, but since I test everyone the same including those checks of binocular vision, and since he had been in recently enough to remember the last testing, I was able see a suppression where none had existed before - the genesis of a suppression as a function of whiplash. Any time I think I may know something, I remind myself that I learned a bunch from a truck driver who spoke up. But then I got to figure out how that worked. There's the fun!
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I'm running a big CFD problem for gas storage in caverns. Now when I set the final simulation time to 20 days or less, it converges. If I increase final time to 21 days or more I get the message: Failed to find consistent initial values. Last time step is not converged.
It's weird since the only thing I changed was final time, anyone familiar with this?
Thanks
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Hi Murad,
you should set the initial time step manually. Comsol calculates the time step automaticall based on different criteria and variables. One of the variables is the time. By increasing the simulation time you indirectly increase the initial time step calculated by the solver and hence get this error ;).
I hope this helps!
Best regards,
Antoni Artinov
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Am in search of a globally accepted method of assessing natural attractions. Different category of natural attractions abound in different regions of the world.
Any literature on methods or models of evaluating or assessing attractiveness of natural attractions like caves, forest streams etc?
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may be of interest. The article highlights environmental valuation methods including (i) methods based on market information; (ii) methods based on surrogate market values; and (iii) methods based on potential expenditure or willingness-to-pay. The second set includes travel cost, a method that infers people's valuation of an unpriced amenity, e.g., a beauty spot or a public beach, from the time and cost they are observed to incur while travelling to the site. Noting that the benefits from environmental quality protection or improvements do not always lend themselves to valuation, the third set draw attention to replacement cost, shadow project, and contingent valuation approaches (and urges caution to avoid improper evaluation).