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Does anyone here know scholarship, research, publication, or sources that would be good on the Latin/Roman treatment of "Societas"?
I am reaching out to the community here for some help to understand the use and character of "socius, socii" and "societas" in Roman and Latin customs.  I am very much interested in understanding the difference between what I take "societas" in Latin to mean (the relations among Rome and its Socii) and what the Greeks understood as koinonia.
I am also interested in Roman and Latin practice regarding "socius, socii" and "societas" and what Roman law had to say about the issue. So if can direct me to sources you think I should look at I would be very grateful.
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One of the main sources is Cicero, De Republica, text that translates the Aristotelian concept of "koinonia politike" by "societas civilis". It is probably a key development since "socius" was used to any kind of association from trade to other professional gatherings. Cicero explains that the specific difference which makes a people is to be the unit from a plurality (multitiudo) formed by association (sociatus), on the basis of a legal agreement (consensus juris) and a community of interest (communio utilitatis).
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What is some good scholarship on the Roman the patronus ("patron") and their cliens ("client"), as compared/contrasted to practices in Ancient Greeks? And what if any did this factor played in how civic life was understood?
What would be the best scholarship to turn to on this? Especially scholarship that addresses why such relations are less clearly prevalent in Ancient Greek social practice.
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I am not quite sure if it is good, but perhaps:
Andrew Wallace-Hadrill (Hg.): Patronage in ancient society. London, New York 1989.
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Dear collegues,
I am looking for a already prepared dataset of Model Life Table "West". Excel or Calc would be preferred. Thanks in advance!
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Here's the 2010's version of MLT (UN and CD) following 1 year and 5 years age structure.
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I want to know about the role that played women in Roman religion: vestals, priestesses.... Preferably web contents. 
Thank you 
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You might try http://en.bookfi.net/
Here what just entering "women" and "Rome" into the search field yielded: http://en.bookfi.net/s/?q=women+Rome&t=0
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Hello,
do you know where fingerrings like this one found in the destruction layer (ca.  260/270 AD) of a Roman villa ("Im Winkel") near Mendig (Rhineland-Palatinate) were produced? The ring has an inner diameter of 15 mm and has a height of 7,5 - 6 mm. I know only of two specimens published by Friedrich Henkel,  Die römischen Fingerringe der Rheinlande und der benachbarten Gebiete (Berlin : G. Riemer, 1913), No. 1728 (found in a Roman grave at Hastenrath) and No. 1729 (found on the Martberg). If you know of further references, I would be grateful.
Best regards,
Stefan Wenzel
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They seem to follow a Latène tradition and remind also rings made of jet as they are frequent in Britannia.
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Roman Statutes
Literary Sources
Epigraphical Data
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Querido Marc, los conventus hispanos ya existían bajo Tiberio (inscripción de L. Cornelius Bocchus hallada en el foro colonial de Emerita Augusta), lo que hace muy probable que sean de época augustea. Siendo así, "de salida" y dejando a un lado la posterior promoción de las ciudades, en Hispania tenemos múltiples posibilidades:
Gades fue capital conventual siendo municipio (19 a.C.)
Asturica Augusta o Bracara Augusta lo fueron sin estatuto privilegiado
Colonias, conocemos muchas
El estatuto jurídico de las ciudades no parece haber tenido peso alguno a la hora de ser elegidas para que funcioasen como capitales conventuales. Después de todo, una capital es el lugar de residencia del gobernador, no tiene connotación política alguna como en la actualidad. Yo lo veo así.
Un abrazo
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Ja Ja, das ewige Problem des Antiquitätenhandels.
Toujours la même chose. Hélas, on toujours se trouve avec le problème du négoce des antiguités. I remonte au temps crées pasés longtemps, mais volià, ils continuent d' être présents.
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I am working on interpretation of combat images from Roman pottery, to this end I am looking for any newly discovered images of fighting men on Roman pottery, I am particularly anxious to know of any new discoveries on Arretine ware.
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Thank you for the link re the gemstone.  I must admit the first thing that occurred to me was the parallels in posture with the Fresco of the Gladiators from the Tomb of Vestorius Priscus outside the Vesuvian Gate at Pompeii.  In part this may be conditioned by the red background of this fresco being similar to the carnelian used for the gemstone.  Given the form of the helmet I agree it looks early, either 1st century BCE or CE.  The overall effect is unusual.  The fallen posture is usually associated with defeat as is the posture of the 'panther' if that is indeed what it is, I cannot decide from the image whether the stone has been damaged, was badly carved or just has not photographed well.  The usual parallels are with a human opponent standing over a defeated foe who is sat and with a human killing a leaping beast.  This seems to combine the two images and have a human who has been knocked to the ground but is still fighting,  in that situation I don't suppose appealing to clementia from an angry big cat was any more use than appealing to Claudius.
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I've read much about Augustus' placement of veteran colonies in places like Antioch in Pisidia.  There was clearly an intent to use the placement of these colonies for regional defence and pacification.  I have found much on the social organisation of the colonies, and their role in providing army recruits.
I can find little on how the colonies were defended.  Were they simply reliant on the nearest Roman army units?  Did they have army cohorts stationed at them?  Or did they also maintain their own militias both for self defence and for the training of young men for later army service?
Advice on any academic papers on this subject would be appreciated.  Thanks
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Now that you  have clarified what you mean by militia I think that the idea of one existing becomes much more likely based on general military practices across time.  Depending on the level of threat being defended against it is likely that, at least in the Principate, the pre-existing military skills of the veterans would not be lost to them for many years, assuming that during their 20 years of service they kept up the sort of training regime that we usually assume.  I am here thinking of the model of defence used during the Cold War by the Soviets which was predicated on the notion that if a man is trained well enough in his MOS then this training will still be valid decades later, or at least enough to perform the sort of second line duties that you are interested in.  The British armed forces still use a similar idea with the 10 year rule, the principle of this is that you serve for at least 10 years, so even if someone has only been in for 3 their training should still be good years later, at least again for second line duties. 
In terms of the availability of weapons and training, it needs to be remembered that in the Ancient world these were much less restricted than in many modern states.  There is much less difference between a woodworking axe and a war axe than between a woodworking axe and an assault rifle, ditto spears and bows would have been available in rural areas for hunting.  If the threat level is bandit suppression and the manning of strongpoints such as was envisaged for the Home Guard in WW2 then these may have proven adequate.  There is a more interesting possibility that may be suggested by Roman Pottery.
In my 2015 thesis I noted that the images of gladiatorial combat depicted on samian ware did not correspond to Roman literary accounts of gladiatorial combat.  Instead they seem to depict the brutal minimalistic style ancient authors attributed to the Roman army.  I speculated as to whether this was the result of regional differences in how arena shows were staged or whether it meant that what we are seeing in samian is not really gladiatorial combat but training fights for either serving or retired soldiers.  This would certainly provide a possible training mechanism especially in what from 40 years of re-enactment experience I consider to be the hardest form of training to keep up, the use of the shield, particularly the stamina required since it really is unlike any other form of physical activity. 
This sort of training would certainly be adequate for second line duties such as manning strongpoints, LoC guards or bandit suppression and would have the advantage of not being a high level threat to the state since the men would not be training as legionary soldiers capable of marching on Rome.
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Hi,
I'm looking for detailed descriptions of the horrea of Pompeii. I hope to find evidence for the partitioning of this buildings, information which goods were stored, how they were stored, and which quantities were stored. I would be also grateful for references about horrea outside Pompeii which provide information about their use.
Best regards,
Stefan Wenzel
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I wouldn't normally recommend this, but have you looked on Wikipedia, there is a magnificent photograph of a very well preserved granary at Ostia that might be worth following up, I was surprised that W had an entry under horreum.  I wouldn't trust the text but it does have follow up references including:
 Joseph Patrich, "Warehouses and Granaries in Caesarea Maritima", in Caesarea Maritima: A Retrospective After Two Millennia, p. 149. BRILL, 1996. ISBN 90-04-10378-3
which could be promising.
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Books and articles on types of Roman coins dated to the late Republican period and the Principate.
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The primary typology used for the identification of coin types from the Roman Republic is:
Michael H. Crawford, Roman Republican coinage (Cambridge University Press, 1974 and 2001). See the website based on it: 
Crawford was one of my lecturers in my undergraduate days.
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I would like to start a discussion on the role of Second Sophistic on the social life og the Roman empire.
Konstantinos Mantas
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It would be helpful if you would start this discussion by focussing it a little more, it is probably better for the instigator to pose a series of questions that can elicit responses much like Socrates does in his dialogues, don't worry about this limiting the scope of the discussion topics in for a never stay focussed on the initial question
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Can anyone reccomend me some books which provide a general overview of late roman and/or "byzantine" history?
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Here are ten excellent recent books: 
1. Alan Cameron, The Last Pagans of Rome. Oxford: Oxford University Press, 2011.
2. Averil Cameron, Byzantine Matters. Princeton, NJ: Princeton University Press, 2014
3.  Matthew P. Canepa, Two Eyes of the Earth: Art and Ritual of Kingship Between Rome and Sasanian Iran. Berkeley, CA: University of California Press, 2009
4. Conant, Jonathan. Staying Roman: Conquest and Identity in Africa and the Mediterranean, 439-700. Cambridge: Cambridge University Press, 2012
5.Kaldellis, A., Hellenism in Byzantium: The Transformation of Greek Identity and the Reception of the Classical Tradition. Cambridge: Cambridge University Press, 2007.
6.Kaldellis, A.,The Byzantine Republic: People and Power in New Rome, Cambridge, MA: Harvard University Press, 2015.
7.McEvoy, Meaghan. Child Emperor Rule in the Late Roman West, AD 367-455. Oxford: Oxford University Press, 2013.
8 Moorhead, J. The Roman Empire Divided
9.Millar, Fergus. A Greek Roman Empire: Power and Belief under Theodosius II, 408-450. Berkeley, CA: University of California Press, 2006.
10.Neville, Leonora A. Heroes and Romans in Twelfth-Century Byzantium. Cambridge: Cambridge University Press, 2012
Averil Cameron, John Haldon, and Warren Treadgold also have some good surveys
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What other ancient organizations can we find enough research about to draw parallels?
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The Roman army is not parallel in many ways to business organizations from the 1900s or 2000s.  You have to realize the Roman army was not run in the same way at all points in time.  When Hannibal took his army over the Alps and invaded Italy, the Republic rotated two men as the leader of the Roman army.  This was done to limit how much power these leaders would have.  This clearly violated the principle of having one and only one leader.  The strategy of the Roman forces would shift as the leaders took turns.  This did not work out very well for Rome. While Rome eventually defeated Carthage, few would say the loses to Hannibal were examples of good Roman military leadership. Rome also had rival generals who fought against each other subsequently, When an Emperor was established, this did provide unity in the chain of command.  However, several emperors proved to be insane, and some abused their position. Several were assassinated.  These situations are not parallel to business organizations in the 1900s.  At some points, decimation was used by Roman military leaders as a method of discipline.  Ruling by fear does not parallel the espirit de corps Fayol contemplated.  Some introductory management texts today mention Fayol, but only give examples of a few of his principles.  The rest are no longer apparently of much interest.  Are you planning to talk about an optimal span of control? Many current theorists think more in terms of situational or contingency leadership theories.  I am not clear on where you are heading.  Are you going to argue people long ago knew all of Fayol's principles, and he really only summarized them into a list?  Alternatively, you might be arguing the lack of appreciation of Fayol's principles today is unwarranted. Based on historical examples, are you hoping to show Fayol's principles are relevant across the ages?  If you want to move in one of these directions, or some other direction, it seems to me you have to be more specific about what period in Roman history you are talking about, and exactly which principles do and do not apply.  I have long had an interest in world history and management history, so best of luck with your efforts, Bruce
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Religious or magic aspects.
mirror's forms or features
bibliography
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"The Moral Mirror of Roman Art" by Rabun Taylor is indeed an excellent work. I strongly recommend it. It also has a great list of bibliographical resources.
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Specifically about taurobolim and the women's role in this worship
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Thank you so much
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I need bibliographical information as well as archaeological finds.
Thank you!
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Cuvigny, Helene, ed. La Route de Myos Hormos, vol. 2. Fouilles de l'IFAO 48/2. IFAO (2003).  See esp. pp. 374 et seq. "Les femmes et la prostitution."
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At two sites in Roman Britain, I have noticed bowls and a dish in 'samian ware' [terra sigillata] pierced, post cocturam, with occasional holes: the holes are too large to be the standard, small rivet-holes which were commonly used to repair pots with metal-work here.
The holes in question are of diameter c 8 mm and were pierced through the lower wall or base, above the footring of the vessel. Just 'flying kites' here, but... Were these vessels pierced for hanging up by a cord, or some ritual or culinary purpose? One hole shows smoothing or rubbing of the hole: it seems more likely that the hole was smoothed to stop the cord from snagging on a rough edge, than that the cord's rubbing caused the hole to be smoothed. Or was it smoothed for pouring?
So far, the only two sites at which I have noted these large holes are amphitheatres. This may be fortuitous, as such holes may have been described in excavation reports as repair-work. However, amphitheatres had external stalls and booths, portable ovens, etc. So far, the only Roman depictions found of pots hanging up are a few sculptures which show wine-sellers with flagons hanging up, but hung by the handle. I have found references in classical literature which may be relevant, but more would be appreciated.
Without more evidence, it will be impossible to give a firm answer to the question of their function, but any further ideas would be welcome!
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i have two suggestions based on seeing pottery in Pompeii from two gardens - the holes are large because the pot was potentially used to establish a plant - the holes may have been smaller to start with and made larger to allow the root system to eventually grow larger and penetrate soil - and become established.  Eventually the pot is removed.  This is a practice through time when you have a precious but vulnerable young plant - a staged planting out, where the pot forms protection and an attractive container until the plant is mature.  I also don't discount the sieving idea as from the hisotrical sources, textiles, such as silk or linen were used especially to filter liquids, especially wine, (or curds from whey, etc)
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Does anyone from Europe want to collaborate for the study of the craftsmen in the Roman Empire? I want to apply for a grant for joint research international through the EU
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Thank you very much! I will definately be interest!
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There is a imperial cult after Augustus' reign, and the augustan deities remain being worshiped after his death. Exactly what kind relationship between these worships and Augustus?
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From memory, Augustus shied away from divine honours in his own life time.  Julius Caesar had been given divine honours in 42 BCE, not long after his assassination.  The apotheosis was part of a range of measures that included making all of Caesar's acts binding, as part of a consolidation of the authority of the 2nd Triumvirate.  But the characterisation of Octavian as the son of the divine Julius did little to enhance his influence, power or authority at that time.
Augustus was heavily lobbied by sectors of the eastern empire who wanted to be allowed to worship him as a god.  This arising both from simple flattery and the experience of past Hellenistic rulers to present themselves as gods.  The Ptolemies of Egypt are a good example.
Augustus' chose to resolve the problem with the kind of practical compromise that was his hallmark.  While he was alive it was not permitted to worship him as a God, but temples could be dedicated to Rome and the Spirit of Augustus.  Thereby binding himself and his authority to that of Rome itself.
After his death, Tiberius had Augustus deified.  Tiberius himself was not.  Gaius (Caligula) made some claim at divinity but was assassinated, not just for that.  Claudius deified Augustus' wife Livia, and was himself deified by Nero.  But the routine elevation of emperors to the ranks of the divine was not automatic in the first century of the Principate.
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I am conducting research about this topic (more accurately about actio pro socio) and i need some clues.
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If you are seeking just scholarly articles, I suggest you search JSTOR You will find, for example, works such as; Law and Finance "at the Origin" Ulrike Malmendier
Journal of Economic Literature, Vol. 47, No. 4 (DECEMBER 2009), pp. 1076-1108; Societas as Consensual Contrac David Daube The Cambridge Law Journal, Vol. 6, No. 3 (1938), pp. 381-403; 
Because there are so many, you may want to limit your searches to JRS.
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Does anyone know publications, articles of this topic?
I would like to get information about finds, artifacts in Britain who has got close connection, parallel with Sarmatian finds from the Carpathian Basin. Burial customs etc.  
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 For military refs, search the Britannia volumes. You could also try contacting Mike Bishop. For small finds, have you tried checking references in
Life in the limes : studies of the people and objects of the Roman frontiers presented to Lindsay Allason-Jones on the occasion of her birthday and retirement, eds Rob Collins and F Mackintosh, Oxbow Books, 2014.
Better still, join the Roman Finds Group - Lindsay Allason-Jones, Hilary Cool or Birgitte Hofmann, for instance, might help.
Regards, Margaret
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I'm interested in a reflexion about the application of the stereotyped visions in Ancient Times. In particular the perception of Roman people about Persia and the concept of "Oriens".
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There is also a 2011 Symposium publication called:
Reconfiguring the Silk Road: New Research on East West Exchange in Antiquity
The following article is available through academia.edu:
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Question: If two informally freed Junian Latins had a child, this child would be freeborn, but of Latin status. What does this imply for his legal status? Could this child inherit or draw up testaments (forbidden for Junians)? Could its position for instance be similar to that of illegitimate children of Roman citizens (Sp.f.)?
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The short answer is "we do not know". My contention is that s/he would have a Latin citizenship", that is, the one that was proper of Latin municipia. In that case, s/he could inherit, etc. but as any other Latin, s/he lacks conubium with Roman citizens. Obviouly enough, the child coud also obtain Roman citizenship through anniculi probatio
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This follows on from earlier questions.  I've read in a couple of places that, after the Augustan reforms, retired veterans could still be recalled to service in a "militia" unit in an emergency.  Unfortunately, the authors do not offer any citations to justify the assertion, though it seems reasonable, particularly in the veteran colonies established in more remote regions such as Antioch in Pisidia.
Any feedback would be helpful on this.  Thanks
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Are you refering to the Evocatii? I found this: 
Dio Cassius, Roman History 45.12
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Classics (Latin and Greek), Ancient History, Historical Social Anthropology
I am interested in comparisons of the power [especially of life and death] of the Roman Father over Children to that of the Ancient Greek Father. What are the differences?  What is the best secondary literature that deals with the subject?
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I would also add that "Patria Protestas" was abolished in the Eastern (Greek dominated) Roman Empire, i.e. the Byzantine Empire.
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The Ancient Roman view of women being always/permanently connected to their family and the difference to Ancient Greek practice. How do they differ? And why the Greeks seem not to have the same limits and constraints as do the Ancient Romans? And what is the best secondary literature that deals with this topic?
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Sources are somewhat easy as I still have my folder "Roman Women", which was originally just sources I used or was provided for an undergraduate course but which I continued to add to.
I must start with the obligatory "plugging" or recommendations of works by friends, although I actually DO recommend them (except the first).
The first is mine. I recommend it only because it's easy to find and the bibliography is decent: Protofeminist or Misogynist? Medea as a case study of gendered discourse in Euripidean drama (I think I still have it hosted here, but it's been put up other places).
On to the real recommendations:
1) Mary Lefkowitz' Women's Life in Greece and Rome (actually, she co-edited it with Fant, but I don't know her and Leftkowitz' other main contribution to the study of women in antiquity is about women in Greek myth).
2) Emily McDermott's Euripides' Medea. It's surprisingly broad for a book on a single play in how thoroughly it covers the dynamics of women's lives in Greece (especially marriage, although she devotes an entire chapter to the conceptions of family and another on two Greek conceptions of the civic especially as they relate to women's spheres of activity).
3) Nathan Barnes' Reading 1 Corinthians with Philosophically Educated Women. I actually haven't read this book, but it's based on his 2012 dissertation that I have read and have attached.
Now for the non-biased recommendations:
General books on women in the classical world:
1) For a general, broad and diverse approach designed to give you the most important information about the key topics together with the best sources for more information, there's Rawson's (Ed.) A Companion to Families in the Greek and Roman Worlds.
2) Women in the Classical World by Fanthan et al. is a must have.
3) Roman Women edited by Fraschetti contains a number of good essays on particular women, several of whom (e.g., Fulvia or Cornelia, the "mother of the Gracchi) are used to exemplify certain aspects of women's lives during Julius Caesar's day or around then.
4) Matrona Docta. Educated Women in the Roman Elite from Cornelia to Julia Domna (Routledge Classical Monographs) by Hemelrijk
5) Reading Roman Women by Dixon
6) Pomeroy's Goddesses, whores, wives, and slaves. Women in classical antiquity is a classic.
7) Marilyn B. Skinner's Sexuality in Greek and Roman Culture.
Books with primary source material:
1) I have to mention Leftkowitz here again. I've attached the scan I received years ago from the book she and Fant edited. 
2) Sexuality in Greek and Roman Society and Literature: A Sourcebook (Routledge Sourcebooks for the Ancient World)
Specific studies:
I've tried to provide a sample focused on women in relation to family, but have included more general sources because among those I had on hand they are important. See attached (hopefully they upload).
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This Latin inscription comes from the base of a statue erected in Antioch in Pisidia by the citizens of Alexandria in Egypt.  I don't expect that the statue will have survived, but would be interested to know if it had.
And I don't if the statue base with the inscription is still in situ, or is now in a museum.  I have a full copy of the text but it would  be helpful to see an image of the actual inscription.
CIL 03, 06809 = D 02696; EDCS-28400836[1]
Province: Galatia Place: Yalvac / Antiochia Pisidiae
[1]http://db.edcs.eu/epigr/epi_en.php (Then search by entering Galatia as the Province, and Domiti Ahenobar in Search Text 1 if you are interested.  A direct link to the inscription cannot be given due to the structure of the site.)
Thanks
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Almost all cellae have an apse, and a semicircular inside, but from the outside it doesn't seem rounded.
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Thank you again, Angel. The buildings of Pompei forum are perfect, and some of them aren´t temples. Best regards
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Looking into Google Scholar I found this book "Nutritional anemias" by U. Ramakrishnan. At page 3 it is written: "Ancient Greeks recognized the benefits of iron salt to improve muscolar weakness in injured war veterans. The weakened suffurers hoped to assume some of the strenght of this metal by drinkin water in which a sword had rusted".
Unfortunately the note is not visible. Is someone able to give me any reference regarding the medical use of iron rust in ancient Greece?
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Francesco I sent you the book: "U. Ramakrishnan, Nutritional animias". See page 6.
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I am looking for images of Sol or Helios that are not in the LIMC or my catalogue, and that can be associated with a firm date of production (e.g. dedicatory inscription) or deposition (dated stratigraphy). In other words, depictions for which a terminus ad or ante quem can be established on purely independent grounds, without recourse to iconography or style. For my catalogue see: http://dissertations.ub.rug.nl/faculties/arts/2009/s.e.hijmans/vol1/
click on "hoofdstuk 4"; the chapter itself is in English.
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The attached statue (Roman) from Antiocheia of Pisidia (Turkey today) of Helios resembles the statue of Liberty. It is well known, you can get an exact date from the description of the archeological site.
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I am working with mural paintings from Roman epoch in Germany. I want to know more about the history, how Romans arrive in Germany, how they move in Germany, etc., but I don't know German, so it is being a little hard to find these information. I can read in English, Portuguese, Italian or Spanish.
Thanks!
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Hello Rafaela, perhaps the following (albeit Dutch) case-study can be interesting to take a look at as well: N. Roymans, Ethnic Identity and Imperial Power : The Batavians in the Early Roman Empire (Amsterdam 2004).
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Red Shroud Mummies.
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The book on Herakleides lists the known examples extant at the time of publication. There are others in Egyptian Museum but they are less clearly documented.
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I am working on a book chapter on the fifth-century soldier-emperors.
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Thanks for those, I did not have either...though I had Croke's other article.
Cheers,
Mike
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It is a classic. The empire collapsed due to a combination of internal and external causes. But, in fact, the western empire "was financially rotten". And studying the economic situation of the neighboring kingdoms, it is observed that several of them were in decline. And the Silk Road, the economic route of the Ancient World, languished. This situation, it is necessary to detail, was one of the main external causes of the fall of Rome.
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I have discussed some of this issue previously with another RG colleague. My personal view is that a critical factor was the extension of full Roman citizenship to everyone within the empire, by Caracalla in 212 CE. Prior to that, Rome had relied heavily on non-Roman Auxiliary forces to support the standing legions, and these troops played a major role in manning the Limes, the frontier forts that guarded the borders, especially along the Rhine and Danube. A great loyalty incentive for these troops was the granting of full citizenship at the end of their term of service (30 years).
With the extension of citizenship, this incentive was removed, which was almost certainly a factor in the transition to the Limitanei of Constantine, and the invitation to Germanic tribes to come onto Roman soil, referred to by Larry Swain above.
Another factor in ensuring loyalty was the practice of sending Auxiliary troops to places quite distant from where they were raised.
The impact of Caracalla's edict on the Auxiliaries may therefore be seen as both an internal and external problem at the same time.
Other factors include the expansion of the empire to the point where it became unmanageable under the old imperial model, culminating in the institution of the Tetrarchy under Diocletian. And economic factors, including financial drain on the empire from the constant importation of exotic goods from the east in particular.
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The following questions are from a friend and Old French scholar, J Keith Atkinson.
He is wanting to identify the source of the following “brief digression on the kings of Rome” that he has found in a medieval French translation of Boethius” Consolatio philosophiae of the late 14th century.
The theme surrounding the passage is the general worthlessness of power and high office.
Keith’s fairly literal translation of the passage follows:
«Rome was formerly governed by kings to whom was given the dignity and power (of office). But just as the History recounts, the first of the Latin kings had the name of Janus.
«And the Roman kingdom was held by kings in several unfortunate and grievous injustices for 889 years and afterwards ten (more) by the new rule of Tarquinius the Proud, who was excessively bad and dangerous. And Tarquinius was kicked out and deprived of the reign of Rome by Brutus.
«And after their time, there were governors called consuls for 462 years.»
Keith is trying to locate the “History” which this medieval translator would have consulted for this information.
He has scanned a bit through Livy, and Orosius but come up with nothing. He has also consulted a number of the Latin commentaries on Boethius’ Consolatio philosophiae, even Fulgentius, The Vatican Mythographers. However, nothing he has looked at so far has helped him pinpoint the source text that for this passage.
(He has found a reference in Wikipedia describing Janus as one of the first mythical kings of Rome, who was there when Saturn next arrived, chased from heaven by Jupiter.)
Does anyone recognise the passage and know which work it came from?
Or know who were the “other mythical kings of Rome (if any) before the famous seven: Romulus, Numa Pompilius, Tullus Hostilius, Ancus Marcius, Lucius Tarquinius Priscus, Servius Tullus and Lucius Tarquinius Superbus?
And since the famous seven ruled from 753 BC to 510 BC, where do the 889 years come from?
If anyone can throw some light on this issues, please let me know so that I can pass your answers on to Keith. He would be very grateful for any help.
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This is really just a guess, but as far as I remember our main evidence for this line of tradition is - apart from the Macrobius bit quoted in the other answer - Ovid Fasti 1.241sqq. and Arnobius Adversus Nationes 3.29.
The "history" mentioned might be Macrobius itself, or perhaps (pseudo-)Hyginus (as Macrobius mentions Hyginus, and as it was pretty popular in the medieval period).
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This stems from the earlier question I posted on 1 October 2013, for a friend seeking the source of a reference to these in a medieval translation of Boethius. Please see that question for more details.
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Try Macrobius, Saturnalia 1.7.19-22:
19 Regionem istam, quae nunc vocatur Italia, regno Ianus optinuit, qui, ut Hyginus Protarchum Trallianum secutus tradit, cum Camese aeque indigena terram hanc ita participata potentia possidebant, ut regio Camesene, oppidum Ianiculum vocitaretur. 20 Post ad Ianum solum regnum redactum est, qui creditur geminam faciem praetulisse, ut quae ante quaeque post tergum essent intueretur: quod procul dubio p52ad prudentiam regis sollertiamque referendum est, qui et praeterita nosset et futura prospiceret, sicut Antevorta et Postvorta, divinitatis scilicet aptissimae comites, apud Romanos coluntur. 21 Hic igitur Ianus, cum Saturnum classe pervectum excepisset hospitio et ab eo edoctus peritiam ruris ferum illum et rudem ante fruges cognitas victum in melius redegisset, regni eum societate muneravit. 22 Cum primus quoque aera signaret, servavit et in hoc p53Saturni reverentiam, ut, quoniam ille navi fuerat advectus, ex una quidem parte sui capitis effigies, ex altera vero navis exprimeretur, quo Saturni memoriam in posteros propagaret. Aes ita fuisse signatum hodieque intellegitur in aleae lusum, cum pueri denarios in sublime iactantes capita aut navia lusu teste vetustatis exclamant.
Apparently there was a Roman tradition connecting the Ianiculus with Ianus.
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Since context is a fundamental aspect of obtaining a genuine understanding about ideas and traditions, I'm curious about the extent to which the early Church fathers and early Christian community adhered to existing norms within Hebrew and Roman culture/society. Influence is often a two-way street, in that ideas produced by a particular source can spread throughout and influence society, while at the same time becoming reactions to the social environment of the time.
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A multi-layered question indeed.
And quite complex also: in physics the mechanic outcome of elastic collision can be easily calculated in case of two balls. That is not thruth in case of three balls.
It is somehow similar the case of the collision of the roman, hebrew and christian religion – during the first centuries. Sorry, during the last centuries. Khmm, during few millennia ago…
Because even by using a christian, roman or hebrew calendar, the user may lost her/his/it’s (!) objectivity.
The question is formulated in a kind of holistic vision. It can be approached by simplifying.
1. the R-C relation : romans did not regarded christianity as a religion, but as a superstition. And they regarded christians as high-nutritive-valued food for their captive lions. Good for circus of the Panem et circenses slogan
2. the H-C relation: hebrews regarded Jesus as an apocalyptic prophet, not as a Messiah. So, they considered christianity a sect which took a wrong turn.
3. The R-H relation was marked by the first jewish revolt (ended with the destruction of the Temple in 70) and the third revolt led by BarKochba, ended by Julius Severus’s 12 legion, which accomplished the first genocide in 135 (580.000 Jew killed in Judea. Roman soldiers stopped stabbing and killing the Jews to save their own horses, because the jewish blood rose till the level of their horses’s nostrils – according to the Torah)
These aspects can shed some light to the complex interrelations which shaped the evolution of these religions. These relations were driven mostly by the desire of physical extermination, territorial and financial dominance of the opponents - or sometimes to force them to convert (this had an unconvenient aspect: converted people could not be taken as slaves, expropriated or forced to pay double taxes.)
But if we approach this multi-layered question in this simplified way, we will find a lot of similarities with our modern problems. We fight and kill people in name of Christ (modern crusades), Allah the (Djihad) or to build the Third Temple – saying that we fight for democracy and justice. We declare that the territorial claims, the petrol, the interest rates are on a secondary plane.
Early christianity, the last roman emperors or the Kingdom of Judea had to find their ways of survive in a highly complex situation – and one of them has failed. The biggest and strongest.
Did we learned something from their exemple?
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I'm especially looking for proof of Opium trade, use, abuse and origins.
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A well structured general treatmant of drug use all over the world and starting from the ancient Near East is the Spanish sociologist Antonio Escohotado's classic: Historia General de las Drogas (several editions since the nineteens). It is usefull in respect to the wide range of approaches taken and aspects treated, but to get the propper impression on its parts dealing with antiquity, one has to be aware of the fact that Escohotado is a sociologist and not an archaeologist or philologist of the so called classical languages Greek or Latin. Having this in mind, to me it seems even more impressing the enormous mass of material the author has worked through, proved by the large bibliography. As far as I can judge, the works used are well selected, but surely you may find more recent research elsewhere. Still I think the Historia General may be an adequate starting point for any research on your topic.
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The background of this question is the issue of whether the apostle Paul could have criticized the Roman empire in his letters without any danger (cf. John M. G. Barclay: Why the Roman Empire was insignificant to Paul).
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Dr. Helig,
My dissertation advisor at Harvard University Divinity School is the late Prof. Dieter Georgi. He passed away in March of 2005. His doctoral dissertation completed at Heidelberg (in the late 1950s/early 1960s) is: The Opponents of Paul in II Corinthians. His dissertation was originally produce in German.
The English translation of Prof. Georgi's disseratation was published in 1985 (via Fortress Press, in Philadelphia, PA, USA). Prof. Georgi's interest in Paul remained quite pronounced throughout his scholarly life.
His habilitation published in German in Germany in 1964 is on The History of Paul's Collection for Jerusalem. That work, too, was published in English in 1992 under the title: Remembering the Poor: The History of Paul's Collection for Jerusalem.
Another work of Prof. Georgi's that might be related to the question you pose is: Theocracy: In Paul's Praxis and Theology (1991).
In addition, I think a collection of essays published in 2004, less than a year before he passed away, might, more than any other of Prof. Georgi's publications be relevant in relationship to your question above. The book is entitled: The City in the Valley: Biblical Interpretation and Urban Theology (from an SBL series: Studies in Biblical Literature).
I hope that what I have shared above might prove helpful.
Thomas M. Scott, Th. D.
Associate Professor of Religion
Clark Atanta University
Atlanta, GA
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I am interested in the social history of the roman Empire, especially of the Eastern part.
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Thanks!!! I´m very interested Mr. Mantas!! A great pleasure to be connected with you!
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Emperor Constantine his conversion to Christianity was an impact in religious affairs of Roman Empire.
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You´re right, the conversion was an impact of a huge dimension if you look on the harsh dispute between the Christians and the pagans. And there was also not only a dispute between pagans and Christians, but also between different factions of christian religion, that are forgotten today. Interesting also that Constantine converted to the christian religion at the very end of his life. But nevertheless it was a very important signal within the dispute or disputes and it was the beginning of the end of pagan religion but also of religious diversity and a kind of religious tolerance. A religion that could have many gods, would always be more tolerant, but a religion that first commandment is "You shall not have other gods before me"could not accept other religions. This is a problem, that is immanent to all monotheistic religions.
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There is a brand-new article in Journal of Archaeological Science about fresco technique and colour pigments of Roman wall painting.
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thanks for you