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I observed a positive relationship between Sr and £REEs in my limestone geochemistry, and would like to know if there are other indices which could be used to explain such relationship, as interpretation based on Sr has limitations. Secondly, can I use trace elements ratios like Al/K, Mg/Ca, etc (or weathering indices) be used to provide a clue to paleo-climatic conditions? How can this be achieved?
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I know a clear linkage between REE and Sr in carbonatites where the REE are accommodated in monazite and Sr bound to strontianite based upon this mineralogical knowledge I can shift my thoughts to REE and carbonate. What makes you think that REE play a significant role in your calcareous rocks. Keep in mind you have very strong crystallographic differences and charge balance is another stumbling block. In weathering zones you have still monazite (LREE) and xenotime (HREE) besides rabdophane, florencite and weinschenkite which are hydrated and Al-bearing phosphate analogues. REE are en vogue but you should try and scout the regime in which they form in a special environment in question.
HGD
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Where I can find the refractive index of 8YSZ, La2Zr2O7, Gd2Zr2O, Sm2Zr2O7, Nd2Zr2O7 or other zirconates of rare earth elements?
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Actually, there is one thing to consider with the refractive indices of anisotropic crystals. While the dielectric function is a second rank tensor (function), the refractive index is not. The reason is that the latter is a wave property, so you actually calculate two values for the ordinary and the extraordinary ray (or both extraordinary rays) in dependence of the direction of the wave...
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Is this true for the HREE-enriched indicates garnet-bearing samples and LREE-enriched indicates garnet-free samples??
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HREE enrichment (i.e. slope up towards the HREE) can result from many minerals, with some examples being garnet, zircon, xenotime, and more.
Usually HREE depletion (slope down towards the HREE) in igneous rocks (including but not limited to granites) indicates that garnet either exists at source, or has fractionated. Because HREE prefer garnet, and the garnet is left behind, no much HREE is left for the new rock.
This is a very simplified way to look at things and as always there are complications. But it's a good starting point.
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Q1: In many articles on jadeite and jadeitite(Shi 2008,CÁRDENAS-PÁRRAGA2021, Meng 2016, Abduriyim2017, et al.), scholars draw spider diagram based on trace element data and REE from LA-CIP-MS. But the number of elements in the horizontal coordinate is often different. What is the principle on which this is selected?
Q2: When some of the results of the test are below the detection limit(bdl) , or the corresponding elements are not detected (nd), how should they be reflected in the diagram?
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Trace element abundance plots (spidergrams) are used to illustrate the rare earth element or mantle incompatible trace element contents of a sample. The order of trace elements is usually shown in the order of decreasing ionic radii. In the case of the REE, where the lighter elements such as La have the larger ionic radii (due to the lanthanide contraction with higher atomic numbers), the LREE are shown on the left and the HREE on the right part of the spidergram. Elements concentrations below detection limit cannot be plotted. The computer program plotting the spidergram usually interpolates their values between its neighboring elements.
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I am based in the UK, can anyone tell me where I can get an ICP-MS calibration standard for
Element - Raw Contaminant Stream (ppm) *** main element required.
Ce - >10000 ***
Dy - 49 ***
Er - 22
Eu - 49
Gd - 127
Ho -5
La- >10000 ***
Lu - 10
Nd - 2162 ***
Pr - 330 ***
Sc - <1
Sm - 150
Tb - 5 ***
Tm - 1
Y - 240
Yb -6
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You could try contacting your local (UK) laboratory supplier.
The major ICP-MS manufacturers usually have stock solutions that are pre-mixed for many situations (yours looks like an environmental application).
Inorganic Ventures make all sorts of elemental mixes and have a UK distributor: https://www.inorganicventures.com/international-distributors
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Dear science community!
I need your help, please!
I`m totally disapointed and at a loss!
In 2020 (at the end of October) there were the IOP Conference Series: Materials Science and Engineering (ICoSiET 2020). Me and my colegues took part in these conference. As the result (like a result of any other conference) the thesis collection should have been published (at the 4th quarter of the 2020)). Unfortanately, these collection still haven`t publised (despite the fact that 2021 is already at its end).
So, I wonder, if there are anybody, who know something about this situation? Maby there are any of those who also waiting for their thesis?
We have wrote lots of messages to the organizators and the head of the university (in which this conference took place) but they stoped to respond us.
I think this situation shows disrespect for the conference participants. And I believe that such situations should be inlighted in our community!
Thank you, for your attention!
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Using the link as indicated by Shoffan Saifullah , the good news is now that your paper is finally published https://iopscience.iop.org/article/10.1088/1757-899X/1212/1/012013 The thing is that “IOP Conference Series: Materials Science and Engineering” is ' suffering' from their own success and are recently even discontinued (see enclosed file) in Scopus.
The reason is most likely the enormous increase in number of accepted and published papers over the last few years which can be seen by clicking on “Scopus content coverage” here https://www.scopus.com/sourceid/19700200831
I think that the people behind IOP now try to ‘spread’ the papers over more than one year so that the number of papers published annually goes down again towards more acceptable/realistic numbers (at least in terms of inclusion criteria for Scopus).
So, at the very best this is a desperate attempt of the publisher to correct their suspicious behavior (by publishing too many papers in a year which raises questions on how to maintain scientific standards/quality control). This victimize researchers like you who learn the hard way how a publisher is trying to get their act together (again).
Best regards.
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Hi, all.
I have a set of cumulate rocks formed by the accumulation of plagioclase and biotite. The proportion of plagioclase is around 55%-60%. However, the whole-rock geochemical data show a strong negative Sr anomaly in the primitive mantle normalized trace element patterns. Any potential interpretations for such a chemical characteristic?
Thank you, guys.
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Dear Mr. Gu Daxiang
I think the depletions in Sr content are related to the crystallization of plagioclase and apatite minerals in early-stage magmatic phases, suggesting your samples have undergone significant plagioclase fractionation in their evolution. Also, I advised you to wait for the best answer to your question from experts.
Best Regards Mohamed Faisal
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Hi, please help me resolve this doubt! I am doing some sediment studies, and I am analysing trace metals and Rare Earths elements with icp-ms.
Once obtained the concentrations, I don't know how to choose which of the rare earth isotopes is the correct one. Is there a protocol or are there studies in the literature that might indicate this? Thanks in advance!
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Dear all,
thank you very much for your help and for the interesting information you sent me!
King regards,
Erica
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I am a new researcher in the field of Carbonatite. I have samples from northeastern India I thought it is carbonatite but geochemically it does not show any characteristics of Carbonatite like LREE enrichment and total REE content or (trace element like Ba, Sr).
I didn't get any apatite in petrography but I found spinel, olivine, and tremolite so I think that it might be marble or meta carbonate.
So I need tools to resolve this problem. whether it is carbonatite or not
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I think these papers could help you;
  1. Metacarbonatite or marble? - The case of the carbonate, pyroxenite, calcite-apatite rock complex at Borra, Eastern Ghats, India, January 2002,
  2. The carbonatite-marble dykes of Abyan Province, Yemen Republic: The mixing of mantle and crustal carbonate materials revealed by isotope and trace element analysis, September 2004,
They're available on the ResearchGate Server for download.
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Hai,
Please help!!
I am doing a study on REE in some rivers.
To find the relative enrichment of LREE or HREE how should I do.
I did the normal calculation of Sum of LREE/sum of HREE and if the value is greater than 1 it LREE enrichment and Less than 1 HREE. However, I did this simple calculation in the Obtained concentration of data from ICP-MS and I am getting a High LREE enrichment.
The problem I am facing is this is not the case for a normalized pattern where if I do the above calculation it shows HREE enrichment and also the spider plot show the same. I also did some other ratio calculations with normalized data all showing HREE enrichment.
Which should I follow? the normalized data or non-normalized data to find the REE Enrichment of my water samples.
It would also be a kind gesture if anyone can provide me with the equation to calculate the REE enrichment for example for (La/Lu)PAAS.
thank you for your kind consideration
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Perhaps you could look in the topic section: 150 questions with answers in RARE EARTH ELEMENTS | Science topic (researchgate.net)https://www.researchgate.net/topic/Rare-Earth-Elements
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I have geochemical data of sedimentary sequence. From XRD data I got signatures of certain clay minerals like smectite and Kaolinite. But I need the quantitative analysis to find out the percentage of clay from certain sedimentary units. Also, I have XRF and ICP-MS data of the same sequence. Is there any way to get the quantitative clay percentage from major oxides/Trace/ REE?
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If you have only kaolinite-group minerals and smectite-group minerals in your clay you might get an approximation as you know what the type of smectite is like (e.g, dioctahedral, trioctahedral , Mg- or Fe-enriched). If you have a kaolin mixed with smectite that contains in addition to those minerals some feldspar relics, quartz or even muscovite I do not see any realistic chance.
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I am working with REE geochemical data for statistical analysis. I normalized the data with PAAS value and now the question is I wanted to know if enriched in my data LREE or HREE?
1) Should I Divide the LREE concentration obtained from the ICP-MS with the HREE concentration from the ICP-MS or should I do the same division with the PAAS normalized data.
(The Spider plot from PAAS shows HREE enrichment in my data but the ratio of LREE/HREE from the ICP-MS shows LREE enrichment.
2) I have seen some calculated ratios such as La/Yb and It has a flow up the equation
(La/Yb)N = (La/Ybsample) / (La/YbPAAS), although I have never found this equation in any paper that I referred to and wanted to know if anyone knows the equation to calculate the LREE/HREE, LREE/MREE, MREE/HREE enrichment (please kindly mentioned if this calculation is also done using the ICP-MS or the PAAS normalized like the above-mentioned equation.
Thank you for your kind consideration
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Dear Jithin Muraleedharan Girija in addition to the helpful answer provided by Majed Algabri please also have a look at the following potentially useful articles which might help you in your analysis:
Geochemical characteristics of shales in the Mamfe Basin, South West Cameroon: Implication for depositional environments and oxidation conditions
This paper has been posted by the authors as public full text on RG, so you can freely download it as pdf file)
A User‐Friendly Workbook to Facilitate Rapid and Accurate Rare Earth Element Analyses by ICP‐MS for Multispiked Samples
(see attached pdf file)
Geochemical Distribution Characteristics of Rare Earth Elements in Different Soil Profiles in Mun River Basin, Northeast Thailand
(also attached)
and
Geochemical fractions of rare earth elements in soil around a mine tailing in Baotou, China
(freely available as public full text on RG)
I hope this helps. Good luck with your work and best wishes, Frank Edelmann
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kindly help me to clear these doubts...
1) How to interpret the sum REE value should I do the Sum of REE with the PAAS normalised data or with the original concentration obtained from the ICP-MS.
2) While doing my research I found much paper which shows pH influence in the REE value but for my area in the Alps region I was not getting any correlation with pH and I been trying to analyse if there any other correlation with other physical parameters such as Ec or even ionic strength but found no luck. I even try cluster and PCA analysis.
3) will it be ok if I conclude my study with the statement no correlation with lithology or these parameters are present in the given samples and further studies with other physical data are required?
I am also attaching my cluster analysis data and PCA analysis data for kind reference
Thank you
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Can anyone tell me which is best method for normalisation of BIF and which equation are to be used for evaluating the anomaly of different REEs. I have observed several authors use different equation and normalisation.
Please suggest
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Dear V. K. Maurya thank you for this very interesting technical question. You can find a detailed discussion of the equations in the following article:
The effect of titanite crystallisation on Eu and Ce anomalies in zircon and its implications for the assessment of porphyry Cu deposit fertility
which can be freely downloaded as pdf file from the general internet (see attached pdf file). Good luck with your work and best wishes!
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I have bulk rock analysis (trace and rare earth elements) for some granitic plutons and I need to use these analysis to identify the type of alteration. On the other hand I need to know the elements that indicate if the rock is alter or fresh.
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I suggest that you use Pearce Element Ratios or General Element Ratios. Both work well specifically to identify and quantify alterations.
Stanley C (2017) Molar element ratio analysis of lithogeochemical data: a toolbox for use in mineral exploration and mining. In: Tschirhart V, Thomas MD (2017) Proceedings of Exploration 17: Sixth Decennial International Conference on Mineral Exploration, pp 471–494 (2017)
Stanley CR, Madeisky HE (1996) Lithogeochemical exploration for metasomatic zones associated with hydrothermal mineral deposits using molar element ratio analysis. In: Introduction, Lithogeochemical Exploration Research Project, Mineral Deposit Research Unit, University of British Columbia, Short Course Notes, 200 p
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I have test samples containing Radium, if i remove the Radium under controlled conditions along with the REE's, is there a cost effective process for the utilisation or disposal of Radium and is it commercially viable?
if its classed a radiative concentrated waste, does anyone have a method and cost for the disposal of Radium in todays world market.
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Dear Stephen, many thanks for your interesting technical question. Currently there are virtually no commercial uses for radium any more due to the severe difficulties to manufacture this element and its compounds and also due to its highly radioactive nature. For some basic informations about radium please have a look at the following useful link:
It is mentioned here that the entire world production of radium is less than 100 grams! Personally I never met a chemist or physicist in my entire life who worked with radium. Early uses of radium in luminous paints have long been abandoned. Also mentioned in this article is the rare potential use of radium-223 to treat prostate cancer that has already spread to the bones. I have no idea if this is still practiced. In any case the radioactivity of radium is so high that you cannot work with radium compounds in normal chemical labs. In this context please also go through the following interesting article:
Medicine after the Discovery of Radium
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Hello!
Can you, please, help me to find the information about formation of complex compounds of rare earth elements with chloride anion.
I`m interested particulary the necessary chloride concentration for stable complexes formation.
Thanks a lot!
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Dear Arina Levina thanky you again for your interesting technical question. You also asked "I suppose QABs extract REE by anion exchange mechanism." Let me answer with a question: What are "QABs!"?
As mentioned earlier by Thomas Jüstel complexes of the type [LnX6]3– (X = Cl, Br, I) are generally kinetically not very stable. To the best of my knowledge they are not readily formed in aqueous solution, but can be prepared through solid-state chemistry or in special organic solvents (e.g. nitriles or nitromethane). Isolation of the hexahalide complexes normally requires the use of organic cations such as pyridinium, tetraethylammonium, or tetraphenylphosphonium cations. One of the most stable and readily isolable hexachloro complexes is the tetravalent cerium complex [pyH]2[CeIVCl6] (py = pyridine), which is often used as precursor in the synthesis of other tetravalent cerium compounds. For more information about the trivalent lanthanide hexahalide complexes please look for the article entitled "Weak or Unstable Iodo complexes. I. Hexaiodo Complexes of the Lanthanides" published by J. L. Ryan, Inorg. Chem. 1969, 8, 2053-2058. For more general information on lanthanide coordination chemistry try to get hold of the highly recommended book "Lanthanide and Sctinide Chemistry" by Simon Cotton.
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Can you please tell me if there are anionic sulfate complexes of rare earth elements?
And, if so, can you advise sources where you could read about it.
Thank you!
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Dear Arina Levina thank you again for your interesting technical question. Please have a look at the following relevant article in which several anionic lanthanide sulfate complexes are reported:
Lanthanide Sulfate Frameworks: Synthesis, Structure, and Optical Properties
This article can be freely downloaded as public full text.
For a very useful review article about lanthanide complexes with a variety of anionic ligands including sulfate please also have a look at the following reference:
Inorganic Lanthanide Compounds with Complex Anions
The full text of this article can be obtained directly from the author upon request.
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1. I measured REY concentrations for weathered whole rocks (anorthosite complex, syenitic rocks, metamorphic complex) and each clay fraction extracted therefrom. The results showed good correlation between Eu/Eu* anomaly and total REY concentrations.
2. In addition, diagram of (Th+U)n vs. REY concentrations also showed good correlation.
I want to understand the REY fractionation based on physico-chemical factors such as electrovalence and ionic radii.
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There are two major types of supergene REE accumulations which you should pay attention to as you seek for an answer:
1. Lateritic REE deposits on mainly igneous rocks such as Mount Weld, Araxa, Kangankunde
2. Ion-adsorption clays which are widespread on felsic plutonic rocks such as Longnan, Xunwu
The question is whether the transition from the crystalline bedrock to the residual clays concerns a bastnäsite (carbonate-) or monazite (LREE)- and xenotime (HREE)-types. They show a different response to the meteoric fluids and create different physico-chemical regimes the closer they are on the parent material (saprock). Higher up in the profile these differences may become less pronounced and take on the regime typical of the existing morphoclimatic zone.
• bauxite deposits contain elevated REE contents
• in Fe-rich bauxite horizons (scavenging by goethite) not observed in the boehmite-rich horizons
• REE accessory minerals (bastnaesite, hydroxyl-bastnaesite-(Nd), goyazite-(Nd), monazite-(Nd), synchysite, florencite, rhabdophane-(Nd, Sm, Ce)
The above phosphates occur under different pH and along with that the release and differentiation of REE, U, Th and Y in the saprolite goes different ways. These also of impact on the REE redox- sensitive like Ce and Eu, or hexavalent and tetravalent U . Also have look at the radioactive equilibrium where the different Th and U isotopes/decay product show different mobility and a separation and shift of the U/Th ratio may take place.
It is a very complex process where without any meticulous mineralogy, radio-chemical investigation your job will only be half-way done. If you deal with natural products straight from the pit or field it is mandatory to consider the morphoclimatic situation, hydrology and age of the mineralization.
Any simple correlation with each and everything yields nice clusters in x-y plots but with no precise meaning or getting you closer to your goal.
My frequently stated credo
1. Geology-geomorphology (field)
2. Mineralogy (XRD, EMPA, SEM-EDX) in this case clay minerals, oxide-hydroxides, heavy minerals
3. Major-minor element chemistry (XRF, NAA)
4. Advanced level: radiometric age dating and radio chemistry (instable isotopes with passage into the stable isotopes)
H.G.Dill
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I am doing some leaching experiments now on metal-bearing wastes using citric acid as lixiviant. The metals of interest are REE, Co, Mo and V. Is there any specific method for each of them to be precipitated from organic (citrate) PLS? Or are the standard methods (e.g. precipitation of V using ammonia solutions) suitable for organic PLS?
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About predicting the pH of citric acid ― sodium citrate solutions and buffers for approx. pH < 4.0 ― cf. my post at:
About predicting the pH of citric acid ― sodium citrate solutions and buffers for approx. 4.0 < pH < 5.5 ― cf. my posts at: https://www.researchgate.net/post/Why-the-pH-of-Citrate-buffer-increases-when-diluted-with-water
About predicting the pH of citric acid ― sodium citrate solutions and buffers for approx. 5.5 < pH < 8.0 ― cf. my posts at: https://www.researchgate.net/post/Why-the-pH-of-Citrate-buffer-increases-when-diluted-with-water
About predicting the pH of citric acid ― sodium citrate solutions and buffers for approx. pH > 8.0 ― and for approx. pH > 9.0 ― cf. my posts at: https://www.researchgate.net/post/Why-the-pH-of-Citrate-buffer-increases-when-diluted-with-water
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I need to know the particle size for the test, concentration of acid, amount of sample to be tested and the apparatus to be used as well as how to analyze the solution.
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follow
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I am first time trying to use some REE plots and I am unable to find the equation for obtaining the Sm/Sm* and Nd/Nd*, I have searched in books but not able to find the proper equation.
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Are you talking about Sm and Nd anomalies, relative to the REE pattern?
I am wondering why are you trying to calculate this. There is no physical reason for Sm and Nd anomalies to exist in natural samples, and as such there is nothing to calculate. If you observe Sm and Nd anomalies in normalised REE plots, most likely is that the data is flawed, or that your normalising values are wrong.
Can you share a paper which mentions those values you are trying to calculate? Then we will have a better idea of what is it exactly that you are trying to achieve.
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I was looking for an effective way to remove electrodeposited rare earth elements (REEs) from the substrates. Any suggestions, references will be greatly appreciated! Thanks.
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Hi Emanuel,
Thank you for the suggestions / comments.
Best,
Jahangir
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We are working on geochemical analysis of sediments derived from eastern and western ghats of India.
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In my view There are a lots of Books about it
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Hi,
I'm looking for some info/examples that permit me to calculate the detection limit in EDS system. I know the rule that the peak (cps) should be >3(bkg)^1/2, but I'm interested to calculate the ppm amount detectable. Many thx in advantage for help.
Regards,
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Hi!
I`ve found a lot of articles in which REMs are devided into light, medium and heavy groups, and it`s quite easy, ok. But I still can`t find information about Eu and Gd separation.
Is it possible to divide(without using 100steps extraction and very expensive extragents) so close in properties elements?
And one more question, is it possible to quantify individual REMs in their mixture?
Thanks!
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Dear Arina Levina this separation should be easily possible because europium is the only rare-earth metal which can be reduced to the divalent oxidation state in aqueous solution. It can then be precipitated as insoluble EuSO4, Please see this very useful article entitled "Studies on europium separation from a middle rare earth concentrate by in situ zinc reduction technique". The article is available as public full text on RG:
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* PMN Primitive mantle normalized
**La and Sm both are usually more incompatible than Yb
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Ratios are more robust than individual elements, and observing how one behaves wrt another gives us insights into source vs processes. Lanthanum is a Light Rare Earth element (LREE) and Samarium is mid Rare Earth element (MREE) element but both are comparatively more incompatible than Yb which is categorized as high Rare Earth element (HREE). Technically speaking, the Yb concentration should be higher than both La and Sm in peridotites. If La/Sm is showing an increasing trend against Yb, it means, the peridotites have undergone some interaction with a La/Sm enriched source during emplacement (and or subduction) and hence they are re-enriched or re-fertilized.
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Can anyone recommend some papers on how to discriminate the origin of rutile and monazite,using BSE features,trace element ratios or REE patterns,etc. Thanks a lot.
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thank you so much.
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For normalizing REE data of fine siliciclastic rocks both PAAS as well as Chondrite values are used. Ideally both would given similar normalized REE pattern. Please suggest me which normalization shall I use and why?
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I also recommend Harald's answer.
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How can separate of rare earth element from a mixture of calcium oxide and rare earth oxide
the calcium is a critical problem which interfere with every methods used for uptake or precipitate of rare earth so if anyone can help me for remove of calcium
thank you so much
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Very interesting question, being Ca+2 and Ln+3 so similar in their behaviour. I am not sure about the right answer, but I found this article which might be useful for you. Maybe you already have read it, but if not, I hope it can be useful for you.
How about precipitating Ln+3 in a medium where Ca(HCO3)2 remains soluble since its solubility at 20°C in water is 16.6 g/100 mL. Ln2(CO3)3 might be insoluble under certain pH conditions where Ca(HCO3)2 remains soluble.... Not sure, though...
Best regards from Costa Rica.
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Dear professors, I have a question about rare earth elements in the bone repair process. As we all know, rare earth elements like lanthanides are toxic, but I have seen some reports that low concentrations of rare earth elements will promote it to a certain extent The differentiation of osteoblasts and the inhibition of the reproduction of osteoclasts. Is there a certain basis for this statement? Can experiments in this area be tried? Or that rare earth elements are heavy metals and are not beneficial to bone regeneration.
If the professor knows the answer, I hope you can answer it for me. Thank you very much!
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Dear Wang, i found your question very interesting as my own research interest is osteoporosis. In future, i would also like to work on some project related to it. However, for now i found very interesting article hope it would be of some help
Regards
Dr Saba Tariq
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Two andesitic samples have significant Tb negative anomaly. The same ones also have Pr negative anomaly which I can explain by a late apatite crystallisation and many apatite inclusions in phenocrysts. I cannot find any information on Tb.
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Hi Aleksandra, there is an interesting paper by Raimbault et al. (1993) on REE contents of apatites and scheelite and they are also discussing low Tb concentrations. The details are: Raimbault et al. (1993) in American Mineralogist 78: 1275-1285. Cheers Daniel
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I have to make comments on some plots of geochemical data and I need to get better understanding of how elements get enriched or depleted during crystallization.
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Dear Ahmed A. Rashad which kind of rock are you referring to? Because geochemical behaviour of trace elements and Rare Earth Elements (REE) changes according to the petrological system.
Some elements are closely related to the crystallization (or fusion) of some mineral phases depending of their compatibility with the solid phase. So the residual melt (and future rock) could presents enrichments or deplation on that particular element (e.g Eu with plg). Futhermore, the element aboundance is closely controlled by % of partial melting of the source and a lots of secondary processes (e.g. fluid/rock interaction and consequent enrichment).
Best regards,
Gabriele
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I have come across some REE data that seems to show, when correctly normalized, strong positive anomalies in Ce and less so in Nd and Dy and strong negative anomalies in Pr. Later analyses of similar material show smoother normalised distributions. Is this a well known instrumental error? Is there some sort of interference going on?
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Hi Georgia,
I would look at the digestion methods and the possible host minerals for these REEs used for the old and the new analyses. The aqua regia and 4-acid digestions will partially dissolve the REE-bearing minerals compared to the full digestion (fusion) methods used before the ICP-MS analyses.
best regards
Walid
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I am planning to work on the mineralogy of the rock and lateritic soil samples of the Bingo carbonatite complex in order to determine its REE-bearing minerals and determine its REE prospectivity. I would like to know which method I should use to get reliable results. Thanks for your answers.
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Dear Mr. Kasay:
I can offer you a flow sheet to obtain mineralogical results from a combination of mineralogical and chemical analyses
1. Check your bulk samples with a gamma scintillation counter to see if Th or U minerals are to be expected
2. A rock chip is used for thin section examination of the regolith, lateritic crust…. for textural and mineralogical analysis
3. Bulk chemical analysis of the rock sample using XRF (LREE are normally obtained at a reliable level). For more detailed analysis you need e.g. neutron activation….
3. Part of the grinded material used for preparation of samples for XRF is shipped to a laboratory
for screening and to split into the particle range < 63 µm and 63 µm to 300µm.
4. The interval < 63 µm is suitable for XRD (in case of detailed clay mineral analysis the use of settling tubes is recommended)
5. The grain size interval 63 µm to 300µm forms the basis of the separation of heavy minerals and for further investigation see point 6
6. The fraction separated under point 5 can be used for XRD (Rietveld), EMPA, SEM-EDX (+MLA) or (micro) Raman analysis of accessory minerals as they are common in the regolith on top of carbonatites
All data can be plotted into triplots and x-y plots for mineralogical and chemical discrimination.
Dependent upon the availability you can stop and leave this sequence at any point.
Do not expect one method alone as the philosopher´s stone but only the reasonable mixture of techniques will bring you success.
I wish you much success H.G.Dill
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How to calculate La/La* and Eu/Eu* values
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Well,
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Textural analysis of zircons is the first step of study that allows selection of targets for geochemical and isotope analysis (Hf isotopes, REE, 18O, etc.), which are necessary to understand geotectonic conditions of its formation and also its inheritance. Could someone want to tell me if the textural study of the core allows us to go so far as to determine if the zircon was detrital before receiving an overgrowth in, for example, a migmatite?
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Te anexo una imagen de unos zircones provenientes del neosoma tonalítico de una metatexita con protolito de anfibolita, donde datamos tanto los margenes como los nucleos de varios circones zonados, al final las edades resultaron las mismas en todas las partes de los circones, además no hay mucha investigación sobre circones en neosomas, los circones del paleosoma te van a registrar la información sobre todos los procesos que sufrio esa roca durante el metamorfismo hasta la fusión parcial. Si necesitas algunos artículos sobre eso, dame tu correo y te los envío!
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Hi,
I am currently working in a project on extracting REE from ionic clay sources and wondered whether SPC can be used to determine the process capability of the extraction. For example, plotting recovery rate of 30 trial runs of extraction and calculating Cpk value?
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how measure recovery how the different unit of recovery data points spread you need to put recovery data points in a linearity equation, you need to see variation among recovery output (measured units) are statistically significant or not
this verification method called normality checking.
basically i need to understand what is the unit of recovery how you quantity unit of measurement is more important for any application of statistical tools
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In the hydrothermal system, such as skarn deposit, the garnet always have rhythmic components zonatrion. The major and trace element always different in the adjacent rings. How to explain this phenomenon? even the REE pattens are also changing between different adjacent rings. Why? Impulse type of fluid from the intrusions is enough or some thing alse?
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You certainly deal with garnet of the "grandite" s.s. series. Uranium and REE are not mineral-forming constituents in the garnet series. I know the complex zonation of these minerals and I think if you want to come close to a solution you can only investigate these garnets together with the surrounding host minerals such as the carbonate minerals on one side and the feldspar system on the opposite side along transects.
Kind regards
H.G.Dill
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I'm trying to find the partition coefficient for REE in fluorite. There have been a few papers which say they have a Kd value but do not specifically state what it is in the paper. When I go through their references, I can't seem to find the value in those papers either.
I have fluorite from 2 districts and I have done LA-ICP-MS analysis on the fluorite. It is the the goal to try to deduce the REE concentration in the fluid based on the concentration in the fluorite. Does anyone have a good reference on the partition coefficient? I appreciate it.
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Hi Grace, please have a look at the paper by Veksler et al. (2005) in Geochim Cosmochim Acta 69: 2847-2860. You might find it very useful.
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Can we distinguish primary or metamorphic origin of a mineral based on there REE and trace element pattern ?
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Dear Mr. Malviya,
you should be more specific and at least refer to a mineral group or even mineral species. An answer can only be given on an all or nothing basis. Moreover the magmatic and metamorphic realm are so divers that even there a reference to a certain P-T interval should be given. I suggest to pondering my recommendation.
H.G.Dill
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Dear Community,
I'm searching the following paper, cause I've got no access to this journal!
could you please send me the pdf of this paper?
Rare earth element characteristics and K–Ar ages of the Band Ziarat ophiolite complex, southeastern Iran
A. A. Hassanipak, A. Mohamad Ghazi, J. M. Wampler
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Thank You!
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I am working on apatite REE chemistry.
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Rabah Kechiched Could you please tell me more about "artificially" positive Eu anomalies with Ba interferences? Could you give me some references about this? I have alkaline granites samples with higher values of Ba and Sr and Eu positive anomalies. Thank you!
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I have a solution that contains tributyl phosphate (TBP) and I need to digest it for ICP-OES. I will be looking at rare earth elements (REE). I do not have any experience with TBP and from everything I have read it looks like it may be acid resistant. I do not have access to a perchloric acid hood. Any other suggestions?
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Dear Shelley,
you can choice from more than one ways
1- as Amit anand advised you
2- using conc sulfuric acid
or
using stripping methods
1- acidified water (0.1 mol nitric acid ) / organic phase 1:1 by volume through 3-4 stages (known volumes)
2- hot distilled water ~55 C (131 F) 1:1 by volume through 3-4 stages (known volumes)
3- distilled water ~ 1:1 by volume through 4-5 stages (known volumes)
best wishes
Ebrahim
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How much REE in arctic aerosol and precipitation?
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After many years of research about synthesis of nanaparticles, it is good to ask a question about what is more promising in the future to guide our research work. My question is: do you think that we need to focus more on metal oxide or metal ferrite composites or we still need to work more on both? Is it better to dope metal oxides and metal ferrites by transition metal or rare earth elements?
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Ferrites are widely used in different applications due to their unique physical, chemical and electrical properties. They are used in gas sensors, energy storage, semiconductors, magnetic-based separation and catalysis.
However, and as indicated in the responses above, first you need decide on the targeted application.
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How to normalize the REEs to the the shale references (PAAS or NASC)? Is it as simple as dividing the REE value by the reference one?
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Exactly, Just divide the obtained values of REE by the reference values
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The occurrence of negative Y anomaly in the chondrite normalized REE patterns in carbonatite is unusual, as Y is isovalent and cannot readily fractionate from its twin Ho in magmatic processes. Rare examples of such Y signatures in carbonatite was reported from the Kalkfeld and Ondurakorume complexes (Bühn 2008).
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Hi guys,
I am kind of skeptical about de-coupling of Y and REE by F-bearing fluids. At least at T<350 C (may be up to 400 C) and at reasonable pH (we know not much about highly alkaline solutions). it turns out that at these conditions fluorine works like a "poison" for any kind of hydrothermal transport of REE. Because of extremely low solubility of solid REE fluorides. Our calcs show that as soon as a REE-bearing solution sees any F it gets immediately saturated with these guys and all REE drop down. Equilibrium concs in solutions go down to below 1 ppb. The only exception are highly acidic brines, but it seems it is irrelevant for you. Anselm Loges indeed showed that the chemistry of Y/F speciation differs a bit from the rest of REE, but it does not cancel the main problem - extremely low solubility of REE/F solid phses.
Cheers,
Artas
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Hi, All Professors and Researchers.
Unfortunately, there are not accurate analytical facilities in Iran and the budget of my department (Geology division of Urmia University) is frozen to support me for further and detailed analyses. Therefore, I'm looking for research collaborator to carry out ICP-MS, SEM, and EPMA analyses to investigate the behavior of ore-related trace and REE elements on powdered samples. My ph.D thesis is about Sediment hosted copper deposits of NW Iran. Thank you.
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Dear Khan chuban
I may help you in SEM analyses. please contact me. My phone number is 09143005391.
Good luck
Dr. Morovvat Faridazad (PhD in Petrology)
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The composition of the main elements, trace elements and rare earth elements contained in rocks certainly greatly affects the strength of the rock. Is there a relationship between the chemical composition of rocks exposed to geological structures and rocks that are not exposed to structures?
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Osama Rahil Shaltami : Thank you for the help and your suggestion
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A reviewer asked me to comment on why the REE are enriched in the magnesiocarbonatite relative to the calcite carbonatite, at Ngualla, Tanzania. My reading around the subject of REE and carbonatites suggest that REE are more concentrated in magnesiocarbonatites and ferrocarbonatites relative to calcite carbonatites, globally; not just at Ngualla. And yet, I have never read an explanation for this association. Can anybody point me in the right direction, please?
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Many thanks Wally. I remember you from the Key Center when I was a student. Best wishes Daniel
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I replace the iron ion with a rare earth ion of concentration between 0 and 0.2. The particle size decreased till a concentration 0.12 and then increased again for a concentration 0.2. The synthesis method used is co-precipitation.
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The metal ions you precipitate can be regarded as clusters attracting water molecules to different extents depending on ionic radius and charge. High charge and small radius are the strongest metal cations, attracting the greatest shell spheres of organized water. By light scattering you can approximate the size of the clusters, which with precipitation will form your doped ferrite. The size of the clusters are also depending on the concentrations, and possibly you are passing some transition here. The system is also dependent on the media you use for the enforced precipitation, meaning that if you use ammonia instead of sodium hydroxide, then your particle size average will go towards smaller particles. 40 nm average generate close to 10 nm average for the same system when I make pure magnetite.
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Explored the data of rare and rare-earth elements in rocks before-vize (before carbonian era) weathering crust developed by ferruginous quartzites and Bolshetroitsky field. Power paleo weathering crust reaches 300 m at the field for the first time held ICP-MS analysis and highlighted features of iron and iron-aluminum ores. Primarily associations with Sr, Zr and Ba represent weathering crust. Key words: rare earth elements, trace elements, high-grade iron ore, weathered fillito-shales, weathering crust, hematite, goethite, hydrohematite, berthierine, chamosite, deposit.
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Good question
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What is the relationship between the LPSO phase and rare earth elements? 
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Is it possible to clearly differentiate igneous to metamorphic titanite/monazite based on their REE?
e.g. Eu, CE anomaly or enrichment of HREE
can anyone suggest references?
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Dear all,
I forgot to mention that I'm dealing with detritus, unfortunately it is not always easy to get nice well shaped crystals as the 50-200 µm fraction is mostly broken after the jaw crusher and the mill (especially titanite and monazite). However thanks D Raju for the suggestion!
Dear Mastoi, I'm still separating the samples and I'll process them at the LAICPMS for REE once ready, for the time being Dr Henrichs suggested me to follow the review from Engi (2017) "Petrochronology Based on REE-Minerals: Monazite, Allanite, Xenotime, Apatite"(doi.org/10.2138/rmg.2017.83.12) which seems to be extremely useful for this topic.
regards
Cesco
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what is the exact definition for Rare Earth Metal and Rare Earth Elements?
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The Rare Earth Elements (REE), also simply called Rare Earths (RE) or Rare
Earth Metals (REM), are a group of 17 elements—according to the International Union of Pure and Applied Chemistry (IUPAC) .The 17 REE therefore
consist of the elements scandium (Sc), yttrium (Y) and the 15 so called lanthanoids
(Ln) which are the elements lanthanum (La), cerium (Ce), praseodymium (Pr),
neodymium (Nd), promethium (Pm), samarium (Sm), europium (Eu), gadolinium
(Gd), terbium (Tb), dysprosium (Dy), holmium (Ho), erbium (Er), thulium (Th),
ytterbium (Yb) and lutetium (Lu) .
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I am beginner researcher working on REE deposit .I am confused to identify mineral generation in thin section which mineral formed first and second and so on . I think mineral generation history is very important to define mineral deposit in good way . Just like below photomicrograph how I identify generation history .Please give me suggestions how I can do it .Thanks
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There is only one way for you to study and determine the relationships between crystallization - deformation and subsequent genetic sequence: Please study the world class book by Ron H. Vernon (2004): "A practical guide to Rock Microstructure" published by Cambridge University Press. ISBN 0 521 89133 7 (paperback)
And please get additional advice from an experienced petrologist.
Please find in my publication list on ResearchGate as an example one of our publications detailing the relationship between crystallization and deformation of emerald and other minerals in thin section:
Multi-stage emerald formation during Pan-African regional metamorphism: The Zabara, Sikait, Umm Kabo deposits, South Eastern desert of Egypt.
By Günter Grundmann & Giulio Morteani (2007) In: Journal of African Earth Sciences 50 (2008) p. 168-187.
Best regards
Guenter Grundmann
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In mafic and ultramafic magma from SSZ ophiolite, the REE has low values, depletion of LILEs and some of HFSEs. To evaluate the subduction components and crustal contamination generally using the Nb/Th - Nb/La ratios. In case of Th has values lower than detection limit. Can be use other elemental ratios for that purpose?
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Hello
Dear Heider,
Using in the REE diagram (Th/Yb- Nb/Yb diagram) can be a good idea.
Best wishes to you
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I am looking for the causes that produce a HREE depletion in sedimentary phosphatic chalks of Late Cretaceous.
Thank you for yours answers,
Damien
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Dear Damien,
One of the reasons could be the sistematic difference of oxidation potential between the REE, which leads to different grades of adsorption of these elements into iron oxyhydroxides, organic matter and phopsphates particles present on the sea water. For more details you can check the work of Sholkovitz et al. (1994) - Ocean particle chemistry: the fractionation of rare earth elements between suspended particles and seawater. Geochimica et Cosmochimica Acta.
Other reasons could be related to post reworking processes, such as taphonomic process: Auer et al. (2017) - The impact of transport processes on rare earth element patterns in marine authigenic and biogenic phosphates. Geochimica et Cosmochimica Acta.
Best regards,
Emilio
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A REE pattern as observed in an intra oceanic tonalite (plagiogranite) such that flatter and low HREE, similar to the primitive mantle with no Eu anomaly. Under what conditions such REE pattern can be achieved? The Hf-O isotope composition of these TTG rocks strongly suggests depleted mantle. Can such a REE pattern be achieved by shallow partial melting of amphibolite underplate?
Suggestions?
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There is a lot of variation in the REE patterns, but most don't really look like MORB. This suggests multiple sources, consistent with melting in a complex forearc basement.
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I study the REE geochemistry of coal samples. Different REE-distribution patterns is drawn when the different background value is selected.  There is a negative Ce anomaly when I use chondrite, but it becomes positive when I use the others. I have the same problem with Eu. I don't know that the samples should be interpreted as having positive Ce anomaly (using NASC, UCC, PAAS) or negative Ce anomaly (based on chond. normalized values). Generally the total REE content of the samples are low, ranging from 8 to 50 ppm (below the all background values). 
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It doesn't matter what you normalise to, as long as you are aware of what the differences between the different normalisation data sets do to your REY patterns (in particular with respect to the Eu anomaly - it does neither affect Ce nor Y anomaly). Normalisation is just a way to make the interpretation of REY data easier and help you illustrate your message. Make sure, however, you use a REY data set of good analytical quality that itself produces a smooth normalised REY pattern. If the normalised REY pattern produced from your data is not smooth (except for the anomalies that make "chemical" sense), the analytical quality of your data is highly questionable and you must not use such data!
(Note that Pourmand et al's "new" PAAS is based on different samples than the "old" PAAS, and hence their REY concentrations - though not the shape of the REY pattern, of course - are rather different.)
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What are the most companies that sail rare-earth elements and they are trusted in their purity productions. Specially to buy their products from www.alibaba.com ?
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try amazon....it is better.
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Hi everyone,
I am looking for any information concerning the prices of neodymium and cerium oxides at different stages of production (i.e. extraction, processing and transformation into a final product). I am interested on price (value prior, during and after production) and industrial impact of these mineral resources.
Any help or suggestion?
Thanks
Regards!
Javi
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Dear Javi,
finding trustworthy REE price information is a difficult task.
I would strongly recommend the Argus Media database (http://www.argusmedia.com/), which was previously known as Metal-Pages.
There you may find historical and current prices for several metals, among which are rare earths. Nevertheless, using Argus Media database needs a subscription. You may also find some other pricing sources for free but I would personally not rely on them.
As far as the pricing in different stages is concerned, you may find information on the prices only after the initial processing of REE that would refer either to a mixed concentrate of rare earths or to separated rare earth oxides and purified rare earth metals. The different prices also depend on the purity of the products (99% or 99.9999% etc).
Usually you only find prices of pure oxides and metals. On the other hand, the mixed concentrate prices are estimated after a 30-50% discount on the REO basket price, which in turn is derived from the individual oxide prices and the proportion of them into the concentrate. The discount percentage is vaguely defined usually after negotiations between sellers and buyers.
Hence, the only way to put a price on a REE resource is by taking into account the metallurgical tests (recovery and purification) and by defining the nature of your final product based on the aforementioned.
Hope this information will help you in your research.
Regards
George
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I would like to know how should I determine the price of the possible monazite sand? I do have an ICP-Mass test result which indicates elements present (attachment). For a feasibility study I need to determine the price for the raw sand but I do not know any guidelines or references to do so.
Suggestions are more than welcome.
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Prepare a composite sample of the heavy mineral sand, representing overall average composition of a survey part of the sand deposit. Determine both total heavy mineral wt. % and individual heavy mineral wt. %, by sequential processing of the sample comprising dil.. HCl treatment, drying, wt. loss, magnetite separation, weighing, magnetic and heavy liquid like bro mo form separation of different si eve fractions.
Estimate wt. % of different h.m. in each fraction and sum up respective wts. to
get wt. of each important h.m. and total h.m. Get the price of each important h.m. from the current market prices and calculate rough value of the ton n age of each important h.m. and for the total deposit at about 80% recovery.
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What are the expected RSD values for geochemical analysis of a Standard as well as for samples under study?
Are 1 to 3 values acceptable or values more than 7 are even acceptable?
The question is with respect to trace elements and the REE in igneous rock samples.
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Relative standard deviation (RSD) is a measure of precision in data analysis. It is expressed in percent and is obtained by multiplying the standard deviation by 100 and dividing this product by the average.
If an element is above the lower detection limit, then %RSD between 0 and 3% is excellent, between 3 and 7% is very good to good, 7–10% RSD is good, and >10% is not precise.
Read the article (link), this is useful - A Review of Quality Assurance and Quality Control (QA/QC) Procedures for Lithogeochemical Data. Graphical presentation of precision and accuracy (easily understandable - the meaning of accuracy and precision).
Best wishes
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Are there any rare-earth elements compatible to be incorporated into biomaterials (impose no or negligible toxicity to the biological cells)?. Thank you.
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Thank you Dr Voncken!
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Researcher working on High Entropy Alloys ,and its related functional property.
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Sorry for late reply :)
Intermetallic yes, but not HEA..
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Hello every one, I’m a student in university, major in drainage evolution by using provenance tools. Recently, I did some experiments about heavy mineral and trace and rare earth element in modern river sediments. The heavy mineral assemblages mainly the amphibole, magnetite and pyroxene, and I explained these materials sourced from intermediate-basic volcanic rock. However, the chondrite-normalized REE patterns show steep light-REE (LREE) and relatively flat heavy-REE (HREE) shapes with moderate negative Eu anomalies. These REE distribution features are broadly identical to those of UCC. Then the Geochemical data indicate the sediments are sourced from felsic rock. Then I want to ask a question: whether there exits difference of indicating meanings between various provenance tools, not just for heavy mineral and geochemical tools.
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Dear Mr. Zhang:
You are on the right track. Your heavy mineral association with amphibole s.s.s. and pyroxene s.s.s. indicates recent processes with HM unaffected by redeposition and the absence of pervasive chemical weathering. There are many papers (see also my list of publications available on the Researchgate server for more literature) using major and minor elements for discrimination of source rock lithologies. Please keep in mind that you are dealing with a mixture of minerals which need not have derived from one source only. Why not making use of the classical chemical approaches and immediately shifting to REE? Investigate the minerals mentioned above by means of EMPA properly then you will get a first-hand information on your provenance area. Never take the third step prior to the first one.
I wish you much success
H.G.Dill
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Dear Researchers
If anybody has updated PAAS values of REE's from McLennan, S. M. 1989 or "Rare-earth elements in sedimentary rocks - Influence of provenance and sedimentary processes. Geochemistry and Mineralogy of Rare Earth Elements" entitled paper, kindly attach it.
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please check the attached paper, you fined PAAS contents (See Table 3)
Geochemistry, Geophysics, Geosystems Volume 2, Issue 4, Version of Record online: 12 APR 2001
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I accessed a Russian paper " The Use of Lanthanides for the Reconstruction of Phanerozoic and Proterozoic Sedimentation Environments Exemplified by Sections in the Cover and Basement of the East European Platform" entitled (in attachment). I have decided to follow its pattern and all the parameters which author has used in the same. But I am facing a problem during plotting and calculating the parameters because of not availability of raw data in this paper, for example if I want to calculate the ∑Ce/∑y ratio, but what is the mean of ∑Ca:(La-Eu) values similarly, if I want to draw climate interpreter diagram i.e La-(Nd+Sm)+ Y+dYdiagram here, I don't know whether the data is normalised or not. I tried to access the refered Journal i.e. Yu. A. Balashov, Geochemistry of Rare Earth Elements Nauka, Moscow, 1976) [in Russian] but I could not found it.
therefore, you are requested, please share the ideas regarding the aforesaid parameters or its related materials.
Thanks
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Dear Shamsuddin,
I have never heard that this book has ever been issued in english. Anyway, you may list through the book to table 63. It starts on page 208 of the book or on page 106 of the pdf. There you get the whole range of elements and the ∑Ce/∑Y ratio calculated based on these. Concentration unit is grams per ton.
I hope this will be of some use to you.
Regards
Thomas
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i'm looking to claculate REE ratios la/lu, Eu, Ce tell me please how to do?
with examples.
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Please read the geochemistry book by Hugh Rollinson - hopefully, you will find all the answers.
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Hi, 
I would like to measure the REE and TDEE in mice, but i am hardly getting any clue about TDEE and i assumed if REE i can be measured by MRI. MRI which might give us the idea comparatively between two animals  based on the Brown adipose tissue chemical energy dissipation.Any insight further into this would certainly be appreciated.
Regards,
Kunal singh
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Dear Dr Singh,
I appreciate your relevant remarks. All the best.
Methil  N Kutty
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My research now is using the detrital zircon U-Pb dating methods to investigate the potential sedimentary sources.
My sample shows several zircon peaks and if I want to match one peak with a terrane which is the potential source. Is it feasible to compare the REE pattern of the zircons from the sepcific peaks with those from the terrane? 
Thanks.
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You may like to have a look into:
Chapman, J. B., Gehrels, G. E., Ducea, M. N., Giesler, N. & Pullen, A. (2016). A new method for estimating parent rock trace element concentrations from zircon. Chemical Geology 439, 59–70.
or, you can also consider the inclusions within the zircon grains, such as:
Bell, E. A., Boehnke, P. & Harrison, M. T. (2017). Applications of biotite inclusion composition to zircon provenance determination. Earth and Planetary Science Letters 473, 237–246.
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I am trying to find references that can give me an idea of what diagrams of trace elements to use in order to evaluate the possible source of the granites I am currently studying.
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