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To Be or Not to Be: Manager or Individual Contributor?

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Abstract

Manager or individual contributor? That is the question faced by many human factors/ergonomics (HF/E) professionals after a few years of having embarked upon their careers in industry, or sometimes at the start of their careers. They are often ill equipped to understand the nuances of each role, the drivers for success, the challenges and frustrations, the opportunities, and most importantly, the people- and business aspects of each role. This panel consists of managers and individual contributors who will provide unique insights into the above areas and will appeal to many audiences. To the practitioner, it will provide real-world experiences that address the various business and professional skills needed for each role. To students and faculty, it highlights what needs to be learned, or be taught in our HF/E programs at school so that we may create well rounded, graduating HF/E professionals who are cognizant of the business demands of industry.
To
Be or Not to Be: Manager or Individual Contributor?
Melroy E. D’Souza (Chair), Microsoft Corporation
Arnie Lund (Co-Chair), Microsoft Corporation
Sanjay Batra, Enterprise Rent-A-Car
Barry Beith, Humancentric Technologies, Inc
Mark Lee, Pitney Bowes
Lisa
Orr,
Octagon Risk Service, Inc
Marilyn Salzman, Salzman Consulting
Manager or individual contributor? That is the question faced by many human factors/ergonomics
(HF/E)
professionals after a few years of having embarked upon their careers in industry, or sometimes at the start
of their careers. They are often ill equipped to understand the nuances of each role, the drivers for success,
the challenges and frustrations, the opportunities, and most importantly, the people- and business aspects of
each role. This panel consists of managers and individual contributors who will provide unique insights
into the above areas and will appeal to many audiences. To the practitioner, it will provide real-world
experiences that address the various business and professional skills needed for each role. To students and
faculty, it highlights what needs to be learned, or be taught in our
HF/E
programs at school
so
that we may
create well rounded, graduating HF/E professionals who are cognizant of the business demands of industry.
INTRODUCTION
For this panel, a “manager”
is
defined as someone who
has people directly reporting to, or working for hidher, and
is
responsible for their performance reviews. “Individual
contributors” might manage or lead projects, and even lead
teams, but do not have direct reports and do not mete out
performance reviews. Managers typically follow a
“managerial career track”, whereas individual contributors
go
down a “technical career track”.
In the written version of this paper, each panelist
addressed seven questions (see below) that provide useful
insights into the pros and cons of each role:
I.
2. Preparation
3.
Opportunities for advancement
4.
Current role and top three responsibilities
Ability to impact (in your current role as manager or
IC) product development or business impact or
bottom line of an organization
Most rewarding and frustrating thingis
Things you would do differently
5.
6.
7.
Parting words (of advice)
Depending on the role of each panelist, their response is
noted as: Manager (Mgr) or Individual Contributor
(IC).
CURRENT ROLE AND TOP
3
RESPONSIBILITIES
Arnie
(Mgr).
I am the Director of design and usability for
Microsoft’s Windows Server System products. My most
important responsibility is to support the goals and objectives
of the company (as articulated within the organization in
which we are placed). This support often feels more reactive
and is about delivering immediate value. Next,
is
to help my
group be as effective as possible in contributing to those goals
and objectives, and that includes supporting their work as well
as growing their skills, the resources that are available, and the
climate
of
the group. After all, it is the people who report to
~
me who do the work that provides direct value to the
business. My third most important responsibility is to chart a
strategic direction for the group, and to implement and evolve
tactics consistent with that strategy. This is the proactive part
of the job and is another part of my contribution to the
increase in our productivity and impact year over year.
Barry
(Mgr).
I
am President of Humancentric
Technologies (HCT), Inc. My top responsibilities are:
1)
To
provide a quality workplace and the resources necessary for
teams of professional designers and researchers to apply their
talents and energy to interesting, challenging, diverse projects,
2)
To build a successful market image and sales effort as a
stable, long-term opportunity for the HCT staff, and
3)
To
provide high quality, professional, and reliable support
services, design research and product development to clients.
Murk (Mgr).
I
manage a group of seven Human Factors
Engineers who ensure the usability of Pitney Bowes line of
mailing and document management products and solutions.
We also perform usability engineering on our website, some
customer support functions, and consult on some internal
infrastructure projects. My top responsibilities are:
1)
To
ensure that projects are adequately staffed, and supervising
those projects, 2) To monitor employee performance and
professional development, and
3)
To demonstrate the value of
the group’s function to the rest of the organization.
Sunjay
(IC).
I am a Lead Usability Architect for User
Experience Group in the corporate Information Technology
(IT) department at Enterprise Rent-a-Car. My role is to
improve the user experience of our B2C, B2B, and internal
applications. On projects
I
perform user research activities,
develop conceptual model(s), information architecture, and
create storyboards, conduct usability studies, and also get
involved in the quality assurance of the design.
that are not project specific, such as,
I)
Working with our
organization’s Global Standards Committee in developing a
usability guideline, and 2) Starting a research project about the
As a “Lead”,
I
have a number of strategic responsibilities
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factors (cognitive, emotional, and social) that influence
technology adoption inside organizations.
Lisa
(ZC).
I
work as an ergonomics consultant and
“account executive,” providing human factors and ergonomics
consulting services to both local and national employers. My
primary responsibilities are to work with clients to develop,
implement, and evaluate their ergonomic program strategies,
evaluate workplace and job design, develop and deliver
educational programs and materials, and alert employers to
trends that may affect employee health and safety.
a dual role: a User Experience Consultant in industry, and a
Research Consultant on an NSF grant for a local university.
User Experience Consultant role enables me to directly
influence products through iterative design and evaluation; my
Research Consultant role enables me to influence strategy by
understanding and modeling customer needs in a more
theoretical sense. Both roles require me to get involved in the
detailed planning, execution, and interpretation of exciting
research questions and they both enable me to influence vision
and strategy via my deliverables (reports, designs, and
publications).
Marilyn (IC).
I
am an independent consultant working in
PREPARATION FOR
THIS
ROLE
Arnie (Mgr).
At several companies, promotion into
management was not a result of demonstrating management
skills, but was a reward for great technical work and
longevity. It was truly the Peter Principle, and about rising to
your level of incompetence. Because you were really good at
thing A, you were promoted to do thing B, which required
skills you had not yet demonstrated. After being promoted,
I
found that
I
needed to learn the ability of, and to enjoy making
things happen through the efforts of others. The failure of
many new managers is they have trouble doing that. They
cannot delegate, and they often have trouble trusting others to
do things when they
own
responsibility for the deliverable.
Besides the attitude adjustment, there are the practical skills
of
project management and time management, and leadership,
which make it possible for you to effectively deliver through
others. A second skill is effective coaching of others
so
that
you not only make sure the best result is achieved, but build a
team that is more and more effective over time. The third
recommendation
I
would make is to grow business
knowledge. This helps when shaping an effective vision, and
being able to obtain buy-in for that vision by articulating how
it impacts the business. The first of these skills can start to
grow through leading teams of different types, and by taking
the relevant courses. The second skill comes from having
experience mentoring and coaching people, as well as through
more formal leadership roles. There are also lots of books,
articles, and
so
on, written about how to grow people. The
third skill will require being in a job for full development, but
reading about how to think about user experience in business
terms will give you a start. Interning can also prepare you for
thinking in the appropriate ways.
Barry (Mgr).
I
spent ten years post Ph.D. working in
small consulting firms and
2
I
years out of
26
in my career
working for small business to learn how to run a small
consulting business and to learn when to delegate things
requiring more skill and knowledge than
I
could develop. I
have taken a few courses, but mainly it has been on-the-job
training and trying to learn as much as possible from my
mistakes of which there have been many.
Murk
(Mgr).
A lot of the training for this position has
been on the job.
I
have taken courses on project management,
leading people, hndamentals of business, and change
management.
I
have also been provided with an on-the-job
education in leadership. Life experiences such as running a
convenience store, supervising graduate students, leading
experimental projects in graduate school,
as
well as large scale
development projects has been very helphl. Writing, public
speaking (such as teaching) and consulting experiences have
also been very helpful.
Engineering, and Cognitive Psychology has given me a solid
foundation in research and problem solving.
I
acquired my
design skills on the job and from some additional artistic
training
I
have done on my own.
I
have picked up most of my
skills over the last eight years working on multi-media,
GUI,
and Internet applications. To be an effective individual
contributor,
I
need significant deep domain knowledge of
Internet technology and the business
I
am working with. This
knowledge is typically acquired through experience but my
company does provide some technology training classes.
I
also try to attend a conference every year in either Human
Factors and Ergonomics or Human-Computer Interaction.
Lisa
(IC).
When
I
first started in this position,
I
had a
Bachelor’s and Master’s degree in Industrial Engineering
(with a specialization in Human Factors). As
I
continued
consulting,
I
also obtained the CPE designation offered by the
Board of Certification in Professional Ergonomics.
Continuing education is also very important, whether it be in
the form of attending conferences or trading ideas with other
human factors professionals.
and design,
I
find that a few skills are key:
1)
Ability to work
in different domains and on different products and
technologies,
2)
Awareness
of
the sometimes complex
relationship between customer and business needs,
3)
Ability
to view HF issues as part of a broader system,
4)
Familiarity
with a variety of prototyping and productivity tools,
5)
In-
depth experience with
HF
research and analysis methods,
6)
Good communication skills, both written and verbal, and
7)
Willingness to seek out and collaborate with
multidisciplinary teams
I
have found both academic training and on-the-job
experiences important to developing these skills. A project
oriented undergraduate program in
HF
engineering gave me
the opportunity to collaborate with other students and with
industry representatives on a variety of HF design problems.
In doing
so,
it allowed me to practice applying HF methods to
design problems and to understand how to work with teams.
My Ph.D. program in
HF
Engineering and Cognitive
Psychology was more research oriented. It exposed me
to
the
theoretical underpinnings of our work, deepened my exposure
Sunjay
(IC).
My education in Human Factors and System
Marilyn
(IC).
As a consultant who focuses on research
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to research and analysis methods, and gave me lots of
opportunities to enhance my written and verbal skills. Finally,
my work experience prior to this role exposed me to a variety
of domains and technologies. It also helped me to understand
the importance of addressing user needs within the context of
business needs, and to look at the user experience as a system
that extends beyond the user interface to include contextual,
business, and other interactions.
scope of work performed for the clients. Consultants within
this organization who consistently demonstrate skilled and
responsible work products are encouraged to assume greater
responsibility for client relations and complete high-level,
more visible projects with clients.
Marilyn
(IC). As a consultant, advancement is really
driven by you.
I
have found that growth and new
opportunities come through publishing, community
involvement, and quality work.
OPPORTUNITIES
FOR
ADVANCEMENT BUSINESS IMPACT
Arnie (Mgr).
In general, most companies have supervisors
of human factors groups.
A
few have larger organizations
with more than one layer (typically a manager of human
factors managers) with only a handful having executives
responsible for the user experience of their products.
So
if
you aspire to a management career that involves moving up a
management ladder while being solely responsible for the user
experience, you will only have limited options. Another
direction people take is to grow the diversity of their skills, the
characteristics and impact of their team. This involves lateral
moves to different companies, other parts of the organization,
or continuing to develop skills and experiences.
A
third
direction people take is to move into other areas of the
business where they have aptitude and passion, such as
marketing, development or other areas of the business. This
route makes your career path look like the other managers
within the corporation. What human factors people typically
bring that is unique, however, is their ability to understand
users, translate that understanding into action, and
communicate effectively in a way that has impact.
Burry (Mgr).
No,
this is pretty much the top of a small
food chain, big fishhmall pond
so
to speak. However, my
advancement is in the growth, diversity, and opportunities of
the company as a whole. This advancement is the ultimate in
both responsibility and satisfaction. As the company and
individuals in it grow, are challenged, succeed, and build lives,
then
I
advance in my role.
advancement in this role, but they are limited and may involve
leaving the profession to a degree. For example, advancement
could mean transitioning into a more marketing research kind
of role, or a role more dependent on supervisory skills where
the technical contributions would be less prominent.
Sanjay
(IC).
As we build our group, the role of the Lead
Usability Architect will be evolving to focus on
a
core product
domain such as B2C, B2B, internal application, and
international system. An individual can develop deep level
domain knowledge of a core product and start to shape its
strategic direction. In addition, the individual contributor
should start to take on some managerial responsibilities but
will always be a “player/coach”. This expanded role includes
developing process and standards, guiding the work of Junior
Usability Architects, and mentoring.
organization chart), there is little opportunity for advancement,
largely due to the size and nature of the company. However,
there is great opportunity for advancement in the nature and
Mark (Mgr).
There are some opportunities for
Lisa
(IC).
In the literal sense (when looking at the
Arnie (Mgr).
As mentioned, this is about a mind-shift on
the part of the professional. Once you understand and rejoice
in your ability to make things happen through others, then the
sky is the limit. Your impact on the business can be huge,
with the right circumstances, and the right strategy and plan.
Barry (Mgr).
This is obviously the primary opportunity
within a small organization, at least as it pertains to impacting
the bottom line or business. Still,
I
do not have absolute
power or control. Rather
I
am driven by several factors that
are mostly or completely out of my control, including client
needs, economic trends, and employee needs. All these
factors influence or, at times frustrate, my ability to impact
anything or predict the effect of what impact
I
have.
influence product design in certain aspects of our business.
We develop a lot of embedded, non-desktop applications and
hardware applications. Our influence there is much greater
than for our desktop, web, and enterprise level applications.
Sometimes this is an issue of internal culture; sometimes it is
an issue of lack of resources.
am allowed to design the user-system interaction.
I
am not
“pigeon holed” to either a user research and/or a usability-
testing role as many larger organizations do. It is rewarding to
do a project with the full Human-Centered Design (HCD)
approach and watch it being implemented.
I
love
brainstorming and using creativity
to
solve design problems.
Lisa
(IC).
There is a significant ability to impact the
bottom line of an organization in this role. When you are in
the “driver’s seat,” helping a client decide their ergonomics
guidelines, standards, and policies, you are able to affect
employee productivity, employee turnover, frequency and
severity
of
workers’ compensation claims, and more. Of
course, the extent of the impact is always dependent on the
client’s response to my recommendations.
Marilyn
(IC).
I
try to deliver business value by looking
beyond the user-interface itself to the customer experience as a
whole. For example,
I
look at how the experience is affected
by the whole set of interactions the customer has with the
company (e.g., user-interface, marketing materials, customer
support, etc.), and by relating that experience to benefits for
the company (e.g., more sales, more satisfied customers, lower
support costs, etc.). Whether this analysis is quantitative or
qualitative, it is valuable. It puts the impact of the user-
interface in a broader context, to put our work in perspective,
Murk (Mgr).
My group and
I
do have the opportunity to
Sanjuy
(IC).
I
have significant impact on project because
I
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and to identify other customer needs that may be even more
important to the customer and to the business.
MOST REWARDING AND FRUSTRATING THING/S
Arnie
(Mgr).
I
have two main frustrations:
1)
Managing
people who are not interested in partnering, either in personal
growth or in achieving organizational objectives. These are
people who often seem to be in denial and/or in a perpetual
state of complaint. You can bring them good news and they
will turn it into bad news.
2)
The ongoing administrative
activity to keep the businesses running and often keeps me
so
busy
I
cannot do the things
I
really enjoy and that
I
feel bring
the big impact. A somewhat uncommon frustration comes
when
I
have to do something as a representative of the
company that
I
do not personally believe in or like.
I
would
not do something that
I
felt was unethical. This is more about
things like layoffs, which
I
find very distasteful on either side
of the layoff. The most rewarding aspects of management are
having a big impact for the business and for users, and being
able to help people do great things (perhaps even beyond what
they had originally imagined). To work with people, help
them to excel, and to manage that team in such a way that the
business “moves” around what you are doing, that is thrilling.
And when you see hundreds of thousands or millions of
people benefit, even in a little way, you feel great.
Barry (Mgr).
Being recognized by clients and peer
companies for providing quality service is most rewarding.
Another reward is watching an employee grow into
professionals who takes pride in their ability and their
integrity. The most frustrating things are dealing with clients
who do not know what they want or are clueless about what it
takes to accomplish what they want. Also, most frustrating is
dealing with the administration and poor communication that
sometimes occurs.
Mark
(Mgr). In product development, you take pleasure in
seeing a product that you and your group designed, being
used. If you do not, you may be in the wrong career field. As
a manager, it is most gratifying to see your people develop
skills, particularly if you have had some role in mentoring
them through a challenge. On the flip side, it is the things you
cannot do, for lack of resources that are most disappointing.
Learned helplessness is a big factor in this profession.
Sanjay
(IC).
What is rewarding to me is making a
difference in the lives of end-users, as well as improving the
quality of my company’s products and services. It is hard
when
I
am not brought into a project early enough or there is
no time allocated to conduct user research. Since
I
may not
have enough status within the organization to change things,
I
need strong support from my management. It is frustrating
when they do not and the users suffer.
Lisa
(ZC).
In being an individual contributor,
I
find it
rewarding to spend the majority of my day practicing the
technical aspects of ergonomics. This is what
I
enjoy doing
and
it
is
the reason that
I
worked hard for
a
graduate degree in
Human Factors/Ergonomics. If
I
were a manager, or even a
managing consultant,
I
would not be able to stay fully
immersed in the technical work with the client because there
would be other duties that would consume my time. This
day-to-day work with the client keeps my technical skills
sharp and to stay on top of developments in the field.
day ergonomics projects of a client, it can be very frustrating
to not be the ultimate decision maker. When a client, for
various reasons, decides not to implement my
recommendations, or perhaps to partially implement the
recommendations, it can be difficult to accept.
Marilyn
(IC).
I
have found my role as a consultant
rewarding in the following ways:
1)
I
enjoy the ability to be
involved in the detailed planning and execution of research
and design, and
2)
I
find that professional development is
available in a variety of forms: active participation in the
HF
community, continued training, publications, and last but not
least, the variety of work and the creativity that
I
can bring to
that work.
I
have also encountered a few important challenges
such as, working with managers to ensure that my work drives
(and is driven by) vision and strategy, and building teams that
have the expertise, availability, and motivation
to
make a
significant impact for users and for the business.
On the other hand, being
so
fully immersed in the day-to-
THINGS YOU WOULD DO DIFFERENTLY
Arnie (Mgr).
I
am not sure
I
would do anything
generically differently. If
I
had time
I
would have liked to
obtain
a
business degree and a computer science degree, just
because of where
I
have been in the business. But those are
fantasy dreams and not critical. There are, of course,
individual decisions
I
have made that
I
would have done
differently if
1
had them do over. An occasional person
I
hired
that
I
would not if
I
had another chance, one
I
missed that
I
would, goofs
I
made in coaching people or communicating
performance reviews, and that kind of thing. In general, it has
been a great career with many unexpected but satisfying turns.
Barry (Mgr).
Probably nothing or everything! There are
too many events, decisions, or factors that could have been
handled differently but
I
do not know whether it would have
made any difference in the outcome after
26
years.
I
am a
strong believer in learning from mistakes,
so
I
cannot wish
that the mistakes had not happened.
Mark (Mgr).
Before taking on the role of manager,
I
would pay careful attention to the amount of project work
expected, vs. the amount of managerial work. You can get the
title manager and not really have the role. There are peaks and
valleys, but sometimes
I
am doing
100%
project work for
months and have no time to focus on managerial duties.
I
would also pay attention to the organizational structure of the
company. Where does
HF
report into the organization?
I
am
fortunate that this favors our group in my current company;
there is a very short chain up to the executive level, which
helps (but also increases the requirements for excellence in
what you do). Coming in from academia,
I
think
I
forgot
about organizational hierarchies as well,
so
I
would try to be a
bit more tactful in the way
I
reacted
to
certain realities
of
corporate life.
organization is to get everyone to be more strategic and less
Sanjay
(IC).
One of the biggest challenges we have in our
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tactical. Many individuals and managers come from a
traditional IT background and are technology focused, it is
difficult to get them to think and work differently. Our role at
Enterprise is very new and constantly evolving, It is difficult
to assess what we might do differently, because we are in the
early stages with many of our initiatives.
the types of projects
I
work on. Not being the department
manager, there are times when
I
do not have control over
which projects and which clients
I
work for. When
management is supportive and has a strong understanding of
human factors/ergonomics, this may not be a problem. When
this is not the case, however, several things could happen.
I
could loose my focus by responding to each and every project
that comes in the door. Conversely,
I
could become
pigeonholed into working on very similar types of projects
with little variety. Spending a significant amount of time
working on the same types of projects will not help me to
become a more experienced ergonomist. Additionally, a
different problem could result if
I
find that too much of my
work
is
devoted to only a few clients. We are all familiar with
the dangers of having all our eggs in one basket. Being
selective about my work would ensure that
I
continue to grow
as an individual and enjoy my job over time.
Marilyn (IC).
I
would not do things differently, but there are
a few activities that are high on my list for continued
development: 1) Publishing
-
a good way to keep in touch with
the latest advancements in the field, and to impact its future
directions, and
2)
Continued education in business
-
enhances
our ability to deliver value and influence company practice.
Lisa (IC).
As much as possible,
I
would be selective about
PARTING WORDS
(OF
ADVICE)
Arnie (Mgr).
Do
not go into management just because
you want to make more money. Whether management or non-
management, follow the things that make you happen. Find
the places that make you jump out of bed in the morning
because you want to begin. People who work in management
because they think it is about more money or more power,
typically do not make very good managers. You have to like
working with people and the management process if you are
going to get the best out of the people you manage, and if you
are going to become a great manager.
acknowledgement of an old and very true adage or two. First,
“know thyself’. You need to search to determine what you
want and what you are good and bad at doing. First and
foremost, a manager must be people-oriented. If you are not,
then it should influence greatly your direction and the
decisions that take you there.
I
have found that some people
are very accurate at understanding their own strengths and
weaknesses, while others are terrible at it. Figure out which
type you are and if you are the latter, get real and change it.
This lack of self-knowledge will kill you in business.
The other adage is “to thy own self be true”. This refers
to your personal integrity and the standards you set. At the
end of the day, you must be able to look into that mirror and
like whom you see. As we have experienced over the last few
Burry (Mgr).
The topic of this panel begs the
years, integrity is a huge differentiator in business. Maybe it
is as simple as deciding whether you would rather be rich and
hated or poor and loved. What do you choose?
Mark (Mgr).
You need strong internal motivation to be in
this profession. Things are changing, but you still need to
prove yourself and your discipline to a lot of people who
either do not understand your value, or do not share your
values.
I
take courage from things like the following quote:
Never doubt that a small group
of
thoughtful committed
citizens can change the world; indeed it is the
only
thing that
ever has
-
Margaret Mead.
Sanjay (IC).
For the past five years
I
have worked in the
Internet space, where Human Factors and Usability groups
have between
2-
15
members across the organization, with
typically one manager who also is an individual contributor.
To take on a purely managerial role, one would need to
manage a larger user experience team with more diverse skill
roles that include: program managers, usability engineers,
designers, and developers. As individual contributors take on
leadership roles, they need to assume some traditional
managerial responsibilities to be effective. Therefore,
I
do not
see the roles of a manager vs. an individual contributor as
distinctly separate anymore. Individual contributors need to
develop planning, strategic thinking, political savvy,
negotiation, and mentoring skills to become effective leaders.
Lisa (IC).
Consider your personality, your strengths, and
your passions. The decision to be an individual contributor or
a manager in the field of Human Factors/Ergonomics is
personal, and it depends greatly on your
own
strengths and
work environment. Consider the aspects of your job that you
currently love doing.
Do
you love to roll up your sleeves and
get into the nitty-gritty of the technical details?
Do
you prefer
the interpersonal challenge of teaching and developing others?
Do
you enjoy strategic planning? If you are currently under
consideration for a management position, who would you be
managing
-
your former co-workers? This is a very individual
decision and it merits careful consideration.
Marilyn (IC).
For those considering a technical consulting
role: 1) In terms of academic training, look for project-
oriented classes as they give you the opportunity to tackle a
variety of problems and to collaborate with teams in a “safe”
environment,
2)
Obtain a solid background in
HF
methods.
This will enable you
to
be creative in tackling problems,
3)
Look for opportunities to work in a variety of domains and
with different technologies.
4)
Consider working for a
consultancy before going out on your own. This will expose
you to a variety of work, teach you how to sell the value of
your services up-front and help you understand how to present
your work
so
that it delivers value to users and to the business,
and,
5)
Think about the problems you are asked to solve
(whether user research, design, or evaluation) from a systems
and strategic perspective. Ask yourself, “How does the work
fit into the broader context in shaping the user experience and
in driving business value?” and plan your work accordingly.
Note:
The views expressed in this paper are those of the
individual participants only and do not necessarily reflect the
views
of
their employers.
PROCEEDINGS of the HUMAN FACTORS AND ERGONOMICS SOCIETY 47th ANNUAL MEETING—2003 989
at HFES-Human Factors and Ergonomics Society on September 11, 2015pro.sagepub.comDownloaded from
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