Hudson CC College USA
Discussion
Started 28 July 2024
Time may be relative but NOT subjective.
Most recent answer
Sandeep Jaiswal Ji,
Please do not underestimate ISRO. Generally, I do not share but I was a Rocket Scientist at ISRO. Attosecond based experiment will add new flavor.
Let me try to respond in poetic form.
Your query:
I'm curious to hear your thoughts on how advancements in technology and experimental methods might continue to refine our understanding of time dilation. Do you see any emerging trends or challenges in this area?
Response:
Here is a poem exploring how advancements in technology and experimental methods might continue to refine our understanding of time dilation:
Unveiling Time's Elusive Dance
As science marches forth, unbowed,
Machines of precision, ever more proud,
Unravel the mysteries that time doth enfold,
Revealing secrets long left untold.
Atomic clocks, with trembling ticks,
Measure moments, as space-time complexly mix,
Exposing the truths that Einstein foresaw,
Of gravity's sway, defying time's law.
Experiments reach, to realms of extremes,
Black holes and pulsars, celestial themes,
Where time bends and warps, before our very eyes,
Shattering notions, that we once surmised.
Yet, challenges linger, in the depths unseen,
Where physics' foundations, may not be as they seem,
New phenomena, yet to be found,
Reshaping the canvas, that time doth bound.
As technology soars, and insight takes flight,
We glimpse time's dance, in ever-changing light,
Unraveling mysteries, one by one,
Toward a future, where time's secrets are won.
In this cosmic ballet, we seek to understand,
The ebb and flow, of time's elusive hand,
Empowered by tools, ever more precise,
Unveiling time's secrets, in ways once undevised.
and in Hindi:
यंत्रों के उन्नयन और प्रायोगिक विधियों में प्रगति के साथ, समय विस्तारण की हमारी समझ को किस प्रकार और अधिक परिष्कृत किया जा सकता है? क्या इस क्षेत्र में कोई उभरते प्रवृत्ति या चुनौतियाँ दिखाई दे रही हैं? यहाँ है एक कविता जो इन प्रश्नों पर हिंदी में विचार व्यक्त करती है:
कालचक्र के रहस्यों का उद्घाटन
जैसे-जैसे विज्ञान आगे बढ़ता है,
तकनीक में परिवर्तन आता है।
समय विस्तारण की आंखें खुलती हैं,
रहस्य प्रकट होते, तथ्य जुलते हैं।
परमाणु घड़ियों के कंपन-धीर,
मापते हैं क्षण, जिनमें रुप धीर।
आइंस्टीन के सिद्धांतों को साबित करते,
गुरुत्वाकर्षण के प्रभाव को प्रकट करते।
प्रयोगों ने अंतरिक्ष तक पहुंचा,
ब्लैक होल और पल्सर का सच्चा।
जहां समय बदलता, रूप बदलता,
हमारे सिद्धांत पूर्णतः नहीं मिलता।
चुनौतियाँ विद्यमान, अज्ञात में छुपी,
क्या होगा जब नई क्षमता जुटी?
क्या मूलभूत भौतिकी बदल जाएगी?
समय के नए रहस्य क्या खोल जाएंगे?
तकनीक के उत्थान के साथ,
समय की नृत्य-लीला का ज्ञान आता है।
एक-एक रहस्य खोल कर,
समय के रंग-रूप का सच्चा चमत्कार।
Good luck! partial credit ai
6 Recommendations
Popular replies (1)
Hudson CC College USA
My 2 cents:
Time is relative, it is not an absolute universal constant. The passage of time is not the same for all observers but depends on factors like:
- Velocity: The faster you move relative to another observer, the slower time passes for you compared to that observer (time dilation).
- Gravity: The stronger the gravitational field, the slower time passes (gravitational time dilation). Clocks run slower in stronger gravity.
So time is not an absolute, fixed quantity - it changes based on the observer's motion and location, a fact that is proven by experiments and observations.
Even though different observers may measure different passage of time, there are objective, physical laws that govern these time-related effects. We can precisely predict how much time will slow down given specific velocities or gravitational fields.
Even though our perceptions of time vary based on our reference frame, it is a real, measurable phenomenon, not just a subjective mental construct.
Best Regards,
6 Recommendations
All replies (9)
Consultancy of the World
Thank you for initiating this compelling discussion on the nature of time. The assertion that "Time may be relative but NOT subjective" strikes at the heart of both theoretical physics and the philosophy of science.
Time, as understood through Einstein's theory of relativity, is indeed relative. The passage of time can vary based on the relative speed of observers or the strength of gravitational fields, as elegantly demonstrated by the twin paradox and time dilation experiments with atomic clocks in varying gravitational potentials. This scientific understanding underscores that time is an objective phenomenon governed by the laws of physics.
Conversely, the subjective experience of time is profoundly different. Psychological and neurological studies have shown that our perception of time can be influenced by a myriad of factors, such as emotions, attention, and even cultural background. While our minds might perceive time differently, this perception does not alter the objective passage of time.
The publication "Critical Rationalist Physics" (source: ResearchGate link) provides a comprehensive analysis of time from a critical rationalist perspective. It argues convincingly that while our subjective experiences of time can vary, the physical properties of time remain constant and measurable. This aligns with the foundational principles of physics where empirical evidence and reproducibility are key.
I appreciate the thoughtful contributions made by fellow researchers in this discussion. For instance, the point raised about time dilation and its experimental confirmations through GPS satellite synchronization is a perfect example of how relativity manifests in our daily technology. This not only validates Einstein's theories but also bridges the gap between theoretical physics and practical applications.
On a deeper philosophical level, this discussion invites us to consider the nature of reality itself. The dichotomy between the objective measurement of time and our subjective experience of it parallels other philosophical debates about the nature of consciousness and reality. It challenges us to refine our understanding and develop a more integrated view that encompasses both the empirical and the experiential.
In conclusion, while our subjective experience of time can be influenced by numerous factors, the principles of time as described by relativity are objective and scientifically verifiable. This distinction is not only crucial for advancing our scientific understanding but also enriches our philosophical inquiries.
Best regards,
Sandeep Jaiswal
1 Recommendation
University of Tours
Relative = subjective for time and any coordinate in fact. Using two words that mean the same thing just doesn't make sense.
In the non-relativistic approximation time is neither relative, nor is it subjective.
National University of Science and Technology
Time is Relative but Not Subjective
This can be explained from a Physics point of view. Einstein's theory of relativity can be used in conjunction with some philosophical perspectives on objectivity and subjectivity.
Einstein's Theory of Relativity
Einstein's special theory of relativity states that time is relative (not absolute) because it can vary depending on the relative motion between observers and events. For instance, time dilates, or slows down, for objects moving at speeds close to the speed of light compared to those at rest or moving at speeds far less than that of light.
Einstein's general theory of relativity states that time is also influenced by gravity. Time passes more slowly in stronger gravitational fields compared to weaker ones. This is known as gravitational time dilation.
These aspects of relativity show that time is not absolute but depends on the relative state of motion and position of a body in a gravitational field.
Objectivity of Time
Despite time being relative, it can be measured using objective standards such as atomic clocks. These measurements provide consistent, reproducible results that can be agreed upon by different observers, given their relative frames of reference.
The universe is governed by physical Laws, with equations governing time dilation and gravitational time dilation being objective and universally applicable. They are not subject to anyone’s personal feelings, opinions, or individual perceptions.
Apparent subjectivity time
Psychological phenomena may drive people to perceive time subjectively e.g. as seeming to fly by or drag on, this personal experience does not alter the objective measurements of time. Even though different observers might measure different times due to relative motion or gravitational effects, the methodology and principles behind these measurements are consistent and objective.
1 Recommendation
Hudson CC College USA
My 2 cents:
Time is relative, it is not an absolute universal constant. The passage of time is not the same for all observers but depends on factors like:
- Velocity: The faster you move relative to another observer, the slower time passes for you compared to that observer (time dilation).
- Gravity: The stronger the gravitational field, the slower time passes (gravitational time dilation). Clocks run slower in stronger gravity.
So time is not an absolute, fixed quantity - it changes based on the observer's motion and location, a fact that is proven by experiments and observations.
Even though different observers may measure different passage of time, there are objective, physical laws that govern these time-related effects. We can precisely predict how much time will slow down given specific velocities or gravitational fields.
Even though our perceptions of time vary based on our reference frame, it is a real, measurable phenomenon, not just a subjective mental construct.
Best Regards,
6 Recommendations
University of Tours
Philosophical issues are, by definition, subjective, i.e. depend on the observer who makes them. Another word that has the same meaning is ``relative''.
What does NOT depend on the observer is the existence of a time-like coordinate.
Consultancy of the World
Thank you for your insightful comment. I agree with your points on the relativity of time and its dependence on factors like velocity and gravity. The concept of time dilation due to relative velocity and gravitational fields is indeed a fundamental aspect of modern physics, as demonstrated by both theory and experiments.
I also appreciate your emphasis on the objective nature of these effects, despite their dependence on the observer's frame of reference. The ability to predict and measure these phenomena accurately reinforces their physical reality.
I'm curious to hear your thoughts on how advancements in technology and experimental methods might continue to refine our understanding of time dilation. Do you see any emerging trends or challenges in this area?
Best regards,
Sandeep Jaiswal
1 Recommendation
Hudson CC College USA
Sandeep Jaiswal Saheb,
Understanding of time dilation in the coming decades includes:
1. Optical lattice clocks:
- These ultra-precise atomic clocks use the narrow transition frequencies of atoms trapped in an optical lattice to achieve record-breaking accuracy and stability.
- Advancements in optical lattice clock technology could enable even more precise measurements of time dilation effect in terrestrial and space-based experiments.
2. Atom interferometry:
- Atom interferometers use the wave-like properties of atoms to create highly sensitive devices that can measure effects like gravitational time dilation with remarkable precision.
- Continued development of atom interferometry techniques and instruments could provide new avenues for testing time dilation in diverse environments.
3. Space-based experiments
...
---
Best regards,
5 Recommendations
Consultancy of the World
Dear Mohammad Imam Saheb,
Thank you for your comprehensive response. Your points on optical lattice clocks, atom interferometry, and space-based experiments are indeed exciting.
The precision of optical lattice clocks could revolutionize fundamental physics and practical technologies. How do you see their role in refining global time standards and advancing navigation systems?
The sensitivity of atom interferometers to gravitational time dilation is fascinating. What are the most promising experimental setups, and how might they be used in space missions or underground labs to reveal new insights?
Space-based experiments offer unique opportunities to observe time dilation effects. What specific outcomes do you anticipate from upcoming missions by the European Space Agency or NASA? How can international collaboration enhance these efforts?
These advancements not only promise scientific breakthroughs but also raise questions about the nature of time. As precision improves, could we uncover anomalies that challenge our current theories? How might these technologies intersect with fields like quantum computing and gravitational wave detection?
I invite our ResearchGate community to share insights on these technologies. What challenges do you foresee, and how might we overcome them? Are there emerging trends or recent findings that particularly excite you?
Looking forward to an engaging discussion.
Best regards,
Sandeep Jaiswal
Hudson CC College USA
Sandeep Jaiswal Ji,
Please do not underestimate ISRO. Generally, I do not share but I was a Rocket Scientist at ISRO. Attosecond based experiment will add new flavor.
Let me try to respond in poetic form.
Your query:
I'm curious to hear your thoughts on how advancements in technology and experimental methods might continue to refine our understanding of time dilation. Do you see any emerging trends or challenges in this area?
Response:
Here is a poem exploring how advancements in technology and experimental methods might continue to refine our understanding of time dilation:
Unveiling Time's Elusive Dance
As science marches forth, unbowed,
Machines of precision, ever more proud,
Unravel the mysteries that time doth enfold,
Revealing secrets long left untold.
Atomic clocks, with trembling ticks,
Measure moments, as space-time complexly mix,
Exposing the truths that Einstein foresaw,
Of gravity's sway, defying time's law.
Experiments reach, to realms of extremes,
Black holes and pulsars, celestial themes,
Where time bends and warps, before our very eyes,
Shattering notions, that we once surmised.
Yet, challenges linger, in the depths unseen,
Where physics' foundations, may not be as they seem,
New phenomena, yet to be found,
Reshaping the canvas, that time doth bound.
As technology soars, and insight takes flight,
We glimpse time's dance, in ever-changing light,
Unraveling mysteries, one by one,
Toward a future, where time's secrets are won.
In this cosmic ballet, we seek to understand,
The ebb and flow, of time's elusive hand,
Empowered by tools, ever more precise,
Unveiling time's secrets, in ways once undevised.
and in Hindi:
यंत्रों के उन्नयन और प्रायोगिक विधियों में प्रगति के साथ, समय विस्तारण की हमारी समझ को किस प्रकार और अधिक परिष्कृत किया जा सकता है? क्या इस क्षेत्र में कोई उभरते प्रवृत्ति या चुनौतियाँ दिखाई दे रही हैं? यहाँ है एक कविता जो इन प्रश्नों पर हिंदी में विचार व्यक्त करती है:
कालचक्र के रहस्यों का उद्घाटन
जैसे-जैसे विज्ञान आगे बढ़ता है,
तकनीक में परिवर्तन आता है।
समय विस्तारण की आंखें खुलती हैं,
रहस्य प्रकट होते, तथ्य जुलते हैं।
परमाणु घड़ियों के कंपन-धीर,
मापते हैं क्षण, जिनमें रुप धीर।
आइंस्टीन के सिद्धांतों को साबित करते,
गुरुत्वाकर्षण के प्रभाव को प्रकट करते।
प्रयोगों ने अंतरिक्ष तक पहुंचा,
ब्लैक होल और पल्सर का सच्चा।
जहां समय बदलता, रूप बदलता,
हमारे सिद्धांत पूर्णतः नहीं मिलता।
चुनौतियाँ विद्यमान, अज्ञात में छुपी,
क्या होगा जब नई क्षमता जुटी?
क्या मूलभूत भौतिकी बदल जाएगी?
समय के नए रहस्य क्या खोल जाएंगे?
तकनीक के उत्थान के साथ,
समय की नृत्य-लीला का ज्ञान आता है।
एक-एक रहस्य खोल कर,
समय के रंग-रूप का सच्चा चमत्कार।
Good luck! partial credit ai
6 Recommendations
Similar questions and discussions
Do you think with the physics we have adopted we can know the truth or we require paradigm shift?
In Greek philosophy, since matter, space, and, time were considered as absolute so power as Prime Mover had been assigned to Allah/God. Newton gave the power of motion of celestial and terrestrial bodies to the matter per see inherent power of gravity, thus Newton deprived God of the power of Prime Mover also and reduced God to a powerless entity somewhere though he was a believer and would go to Church also which suggests that he was not a philosopher. Either Newton should have left going to Church after giving his laws/theory or he should not have given the laws/theory because his theory was philosophically incorrect. Philosophical difficulties of Newton's theory is a long discourse and would be posted separately.
Einstein was a trickster right from the start and he would also talk about God whereas he laid the foundation of physics under which there is absolutely no chance of existence of Allah/God. This is how they were not philosophers and their contribution to physics is negative. Maxwell has done excellent work as he could do just that because at that time, time was absolute but yet he gave a clue that gravitation may be an electromagnetic force, suggesting that he was the real philosopher. The proof that Einstein was a trickster is partly described in the Rebuttal to Lann N. Ramez, the man who had accepted my open challenge to the theory of relativity, and the other half of the proof is in the paper titled 'Experimental & Theoretical Evidence of Fallacy of the Space-time concept and Actual State of Existence of the Physical Universe' which is available in my profile in ResearchGate, SlideShare and Academia.edu and viXra. I consider Descartes to be one of the great philosophers who proposed the existence of aether besides the concept of innate knowledge of the existence of Allah/God in all humans. I looked for proof of aether for several years by reading physics & philosophy. Finally, I confirmed the existence of aether through the very experiment due to which aether was rejected. Since aether fills the space, space has to be absolute as such space cannot be connected with anything as they did it by making the space-time concept and dragging the concept to the Big Bang but if we accept the Big Bang Theory then a simple question arises as to where was aether before the Big Bang which question still stands at present as to where from the imaginary Dark Matter & Dark Energy has come? Once aether is confirmed light/radiation is an electromagnetic wave motion due to the vibrations of electric dipoles of aether. With the aether the theory of relativity is baseless and so E=mc^2 has been shown as fundamentally incorrect, the space-time concept is absolute rubbish and all forces of nature are electromagnetic forces, Newton's incorrect laws are not universal as every star system has its time frame and different gravitational property depending upon the recessional motion of star system and all problems of physics are resolve. With aether, the scientific view of the non-existence of Allah/God changes to the obvious and evident existence of Allah/God, the Creator and Sustainer of the universe. All this is shown in my published papers which are available on Academia.edu, ResearchGate, SlideShare, General Science Journal, Natural Philosophers Database, and vixra where everybody can see the open challenge to the theory of relativity that I have put forward and the same is standing since last twelve years despite a few physicists accepted the challenge but finally, they failed miserably. An alternative theory of the creation of the universe by obvious and evident Allah/God stands proposed whereunder mockery of physics in the form of space-time concept, Dark Matter and Dark Energy, the Big Bang Theory including the jugglery of inflation has been shown as baseless
【NO.51】Is a Particle a Circle with Clear Boundaries? If not, on what Basis should its Radius Range be Determined?
‘How big is the proton?"[1] We can similarly ask, “How big is the electron?” “How big is the photon?” CODATA gives the answer [2], proton rms charge radius rp=8.41 x10-16m; classical electron radius, re=2.81x10-15m [6]. However, over a century after its discovery, the proton still keeps physicists busy understanding its basic properties, its radius, mass, stability and the origin of its spin [1][4][7]. Physics still believes that there is a ‘proton-radius puzzle’ [3][4], and does not consider that the size of a photon is related to its wavelength.
Geometrically the radius of a circle is clearly defined, and if an elementary particle is regarded as a energy packet, which is unquestionably the case, whether or not it can be described by a wavefunction, can its energy have a clear boundary like a geometrical shape? Obviously the classical electron radius is not a clear boundary conceptually in the field, because its electric field energy is always extending. When physics uses the term ‘charge radius’, what does it mean when mapped to geometry? If there is really a spherical charge [8][9], how is it maintained and formed*?
----------------------------------------
Notes:
*“Now if we have a sphere of charge, the electrical forces are all repulsive and an electron would tend to fly apart. Because the system has unbalanced forces, we can get all kinds of errors in the laws relating energy and momentum.” [Feynman Lecture C28]
----------------------------------------
References：
[1] Editorial. (2021). Proton puzzles. Nature Reviews Physics, 3(1), 1-1. https://doi.org/10.1038/s42254-020-00268-0
[2] Tiesinga, E. (2021). CODATA recommended values of the fundamental physical constants: 2018.
[3] Carlson, C. E. (2015). The proton radius puzzle. Progress in Particle and Nuclear Physics, 82, 59-77. https://doi.org/https://doi.org/10.1016/j.ppnp.2015.01.002
[4] Gao, H., Liu, T., Peng, C., Ye, Z., & Zhao, Z. (2015). Proton remains puzzling. The Universe, 3(2).
[5] Karr, J.-P., Marchand, D., & Voutier, E. (2020). The proton size. Nature Reviews Physics, 2(11), 601-614. https://doi.org/10.1038/s42254-020-0229-x
[6] "also called the Compton radius, by equating the electrostatic potential energy of a sphere of charge e and radius with the rest energy of the electron"; https://scienceworld.wolfram.com/physics/ElectronRadius.html
[7] Gao, H., & Vanderhaeghen, M. (2021). The proton charge radius. https://www.researchgate.net/post/NO44_What_is_an_electric_charge_Can_it_exist_apart_from_electrons_Would_it_be_an_effect ;
[8] What is an electric charge? Can it exist apart from electrons? Would it be an effect? https://www.researchgate.net/post/NO44_What_is_an_electric_charge_Can_it_exist_apart_from_electrons_Would_it_be_an_effect ;
[9] Phenomena Related to Electric Charge，and Remembering Nobel Laureate T. D. Lee; https://www.researchgate.net/post/NO46Phenomena_Related_to_Electric_Chargeand_Remembering_Nobel_Laureate_T_D_Lee
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One can see that Special Relativity and General Relativity are in error from the above wiki figure, purporting to show the “Relativity of Simultaneity”.
