Who is using LASER Light therapy for back and neck migraine headaches?

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• 
  Stuart Ray · Johns Hopkins Medicine

  I'm very skeptical. Any strong evidence that this is safe and effective?

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  I'm very skeptical. Any strong evidence that this is safe and effective?

  Jul 12, 2012
• 
  Phil Petursson ·

  I'm researching a similar field. This is the effectiveness of pulsed electro-magnetic field (PEMF) therapy for musculoskeletal pain, fracture non-unions, and related conditions. A lot of research exists. Comments?

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  I'm researching a similar field. This is the effectiveness of pulsed electro-magnetic field (PEMF) therapy for musculoskeletal pain, fracture non-unions, and related conditions. A lot of research exists. Comments?

  Jul 25, 2012
• 
  Stuart Ray · Johns Hopkins Medicine

  Regarding Farooq Rathore's references provided, they are mostly negative except for the first two, which are from the same group of authors, are published in low-impact journals, and report very small studies that don't appear to be well-controlled. Overall, not compelling - especially for a therapy that has little biological plausibility (beyond simple warmth). Regarding Phil Petursson's question about PEMF, my understanding is that this approach lacks support from secondary sources (systematic reviews).

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  Regarding Farooq Rathore's references provided, they are mostly negative except for the first two, which are from the same group of authors, are published in low-impact journals, and report very small studies that don't appear to be well-controlled. Overall, not compelling - especially for a therapy that has little biological plausibility (beyond simple warmth).
  
  Regarding Phil Petursson's question about PEMF, my understanding is that this approach lacks support from secondary sources (systematic reviews).

  Jul 25, 2012
• 
  Phil Petursson ·

  Hi Stuart, Thank you for your reply. I need to check for systematic reviews and check the info, as a search (PEMF) through ResearchGate shows 381 studies; and a brief search provided additional results. Specifcally, "pulsed electromagnetic field therapy" and/or "PEMF" include: FDA = 685 results; PEDro = 27 records; PubMed = 320 results; Google Scholar = 3920 hits. An interesting question for a literature review would be: What Pulsed Electro-Magnetic Field (PEMF) medical device(s) would provide best practice results related to reliability, accuracy, safety, and effective operational parameters? The PEMF field of study is massive, due to the range of operational parameters and varied results; and the quality of the varied PEMF medical devices, available on the market. I look forward to your continued replies, advice, recommendations, and information. Related to this post, I wanted to mention PEMF, potentially representing an optional adjuct to laser light therapy, and due to the large number of companies promoting the sale of PEMF med devices. Importantly, these same companies state several physicians, in the United States, use PEMF, to promote their product. I am investigating further. Any further information regarding the credibiltiy of PEMF would be greatly appreciated.

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  Hi Stuart, Thank you for your reply. I need to check for systematic reviews and check the info, as a search (PEMF) through ResearchGate shows 381 studies; and a brief search provided additional results. Specifcally, "pulsed electromagnetic field therapy" and/or "PEMF" include: FDA = 685 results; PEDro = 27 records; PubMed = 320 results; Google Scholar = 3920 hits.
  An interesting question for a literature review would be: What Pulsed Electro-Magnetic Field (PEMF) medical device(s) would provide best practice results related to reliability, accuracy, safety, and effective operational parameters? The PEMF field of study is massive, due to the range of operational parameters and varied results; and the quality of the varied PEMF medical devices, available on the market. I look forward to your continued replies, advice, recommendations, and information.
  Related to this post, I wanted to mention PEMF, potentially representing an optional adjuct to laser light therapy, and due to the large number of companies promoting the sale of PEMF med devices. Importantly, these same companies state several physicians, in the United States, use PEMF, to promote their product. I am investigating further. Any further information regarding the credibiltiy of PEMF would be greatly appreciated.

  Jul 25, 2012
• 
  Patrick Herbots · Ghent University

  Hi, I'm a veterinarian, animal physiotherapist and I'm working with LLLt since about 20years and the only benefit to me is the effect on woundhealing for longstanding wounds in horses and dogs. Hypergranulation decreases, and a non-hairy epiltelium closes the wound

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  Hi, I'm a veterinarian, animal physiotherapist and I'm working with LLLt since about 20years and the only benefit to me is the effect on woundhealing for longstanding wounds in horses and dogs. Hypergranulation decreases, and a non-hairy epiltelium closes the wound

  Jul 27, 2012
• 
  Stuart Ray · Johns Hopkins Medicine

  Patrick: It makes sense to me that laser light could affect the skin to a few millimeters depth. I would not be surprised if there's good evidence for effectiveness. Phil: On the contrary, deeper effects don't make sense to me, and I would need to see evidence before I'd say anything positive (beyond "show me the data"). Counting links and references is meaningless - they might be negative results, who knows? The sheer number might also reflect marketing efforts (e.g. stimulating a discussion on ResearchGate without actually providing convincing evidence), and such traffic does not in itself represent evidence - it just inflates link counts on Google.

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  Patrick: It makes sense to me that laser light could affect the skin to a few millimeters depth. I would not be surprised if there's good evidence for effectiveness.
  
  Phil: On the contrary, deeper effects don't make sense to me, and I would need to see evidence before I'd say anything positive (beyond "show me the data"). Counting links and references is meaningless - they might be negative results, who knows? The sheer number might also reflect marketing efforts (e.g. stimulating a discussion on ResearchGate without actually providing convincing evidence), and such traffic does not in itself represent evidence - it just inflates link counts on Google.

  Jul 27, 2012
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  Phil Petursson ·

  Hi Stuart, I am starting a literature review related to the effectiveness of PEMF. The mass numbers of studies related to PEMF, only represented an inital step towards the lit review. I fully agree that the sheer numbers may reflect marketing efforts, and that some of these studies, being used by marketing companies, show an obvious bias. However, these marketing companies state that thousands of medical professionals are using PEMF. Therefore, my rational to complete a personal lit review critically analysing the best of the evidence. Thank you for your comments.

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  Hi Stuart,
  I am starting a literature review related to the effectiveness of PEMF. The mass numbers of studies related to PEMF, only represented an inital step towards the lit review. I fully agree that the sheer numbers may reflect marketing efforts, and that some of these studies, being used by marketing companies, show an obvious bias. However, these marketing companies state that thousands of medical professionals are using PEMF. Therefore, my rational to complete a personal lit review critically analysing the best of the evidence. Thank you for your comments.

  Jul 28, 2012
• 
  Stuart Ray · Johns Hopkins Medicine

  you give excellent reasons for performing this review! Such reviews are challenging work. i hope you're able to glean something meaningful.

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  you give excellent reasons for performing this review! Such reviews are challenging work. i hope you're able to glean something meaningful.

  Jul 28, 2012
• 
  David Gross

  Nothing plus nothing is nothing....nothing here adds up

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  Nothing plus nothing is nothing....nothing here adds up

  Aug 1, 2012
• 
  Phil Petursson ·

  PEMF provides a significant range of operational parameters, from a wide range of existing studies, showing varied outcomes. However, current randomised controlled trials are showing better results. My work continues......

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  PEMF provides a significant range of operational parameters, from a wide range of existing studies, showing varied outcomes. However, current randomised controlled trials are showing better results. My work continues......

  Aug 2, 2012
• 
  Mark Rogers · yourhealthygp.com

  Thanks for the input!! and the support for an idea that is 45 years old across Eastern Europe and has spread world wide(Thorlaser.com;Photobiology.info)Have any of you taken the time to understand why Blue phototherapy has been performed across the globe for over 40 yrs preventing cerebral palsy in premature Jaundiced infants.Its the absorption spectrum!! that matters.The wavelength of pain is red,the peak absorption of red proteins,histamines,prostaglandins substance P CRP and another 150 such inflammatory proteins is 830nm in the INFRA RED spectrum of light.Our skin envelope is almost 100% transparent to the extremely narrow, less than .5millimetres, Laser beams. The light has been measured many many times throughout the globe to penetrate a grown mans thigh.Only for obese patients do we need to increase the power output to ensure deep penetration.It is a proven fact of science that laser light in the infra red spectrum stimulates sick injured cells under Oxidative stress to heal, and fibroblasts to produce collagen, the building blocks of ALL connective tissues,ie Ligaments. tendons, cartilage.THE mistake statement at medical school was "cartilage can never be regenerated" I encourage you to read the work of my colleges Professors of Photomedicine at Harvard Medical school Michael Hamblin et al and Professor Kendric Smith who wrote the on line text book photobiology.info

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  Thanks for the input!! and the support for an idea that is 45 years old across Eastern Europe and has spread world wide(Thorlaser.com;Photobiology.info)Have any of you taken the time to understand why Blue phototherapy has been performed across the globe for over 40 yrs preventing cerebral palsy in premature Jaundiced infants.Its the absorption spectrum!! that matters.The wavelength of pain is red,the peak absorption of red proteins,histamines,prostaglandins substance P CRP and another 150 such inflammatory proteins is 830nm in the INFRA RED spectrum of light.Our skin envelope is almost 100% transparent to the extremely narrow, less than .5millimetres, Laser beams. The light has been measured many many times throughout the globe to penetrate a grown mans thigh.Only for obese patients do we need to increase the power output to ensure deep penetration.It is a proven fact of science that laser light in the infra red spectrum stimulates sick injured cells under Oxidative stress to heal, and fibroblasts to produce collagen, the building blocks of ALL connective tissues,ie Ligaments. tendons, cartilage.THE mistake statement at medical school was "cartilage can never be regenerated" I encourage you to read the work of my colleges Professors of Photomedicine at Harvard Medical school Michael Hamblin et al and Professor Kendric
  Smith who wrote the on line text book photobiology.info

  Aug 3, 2012
• 
  Phil Petursson ·

  Hi Mark, It appears that you are investigating alternative therapies. Research on LLLT looks interesting. Alternatively, PEMF therapy has similar aspects of LLLT. Therefore, the reason that I included PEMF on your post. I hope this didn't create any conflict towards the purpose of your topic. However, I do not feel that making this topic needlessly conversational on Researchgate.net would be appropriate. Please correct me if I am wrong. If anyone would like to discuss this info further, please contact me at peturssonphil@hotmail.com. Please put 'Researchgate discussion' in the subject line. Then we could post the conclusions of our discussions back on Researchgate.net. Regards, Phil

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  Hi Mark,
  It appears that you are investigating alternative therapies. Research on LLLT looks interesting. Alternatively, PEMF therapy has similar aspects of LLLT. Therefore, the reason that I included PEMF on your post. I hope this didn't create any conflict towards the purpose of your topic. However, I do not feel that making this topic needlessly conversational on Researchgate.net would be appropriate. Please correct me if I am wrong. If anyone would like to discuss this info further, please contact me at peturssonphil@hotmail.com. Please put 'Researchgate discussion' in the subject line. Then we could post the conclusions of our discussions back on Researchgate.net.
  Regards, Phil

  Aug 4, 2012